Coronavirus

[TheTalkingMule]

Took the El out of Philly to a bus for the hell of it yesterday. Dear lord. Poor people are not being protected from COVID-19 in any way whatsoever.

Everyone was wearing masks, but literally everything else was business as usual. It's no wonder so many black people from poor neighborhoods are dying.

We dropped two people at my mom's ultra-high-end nursing home too. That was an eye opener. They won't let me in the door, but two poor West Philly workers just arrived after transferring from an absolutely absurdly filthy El subway car at an absolutely filthy 69th St Station to a fairly clean bus.

What a mess.

Meanwhile.....none of area suburban schools are gonna open in person. 23 Americans aged 5-15 have died of COVID-19 since 2/1. That's all existing health levels. Severe asthma, cancer, type 1 diabetes, leukemia, everything. At risk seniors are just left to literally die in the streets while we protect kids that have essentially zero vulnerability.

Could we possibly be doing this an more poorly?

https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Death-Counts-by-Sex-Age-and-S/9bhg-hcku

 

[Daniel in SD]

Took the El out of Philly to a bus for the hell of it yesterday. Dear lord. Poor people are not being protected from COVID-19 in any way whatsoever.

Everyone was wearing masks, but literally everything else was business as usual. It's no wonder so many black people from poor neighborhoods are dying.

We dropped two people at my mom's ultra-high-end nursing home too. That was an eye opener. They won't let me in the door, but two poor West Philly workers just arrived after transferring from an absolutely absurdly filthy El subway car at an absolutely filthy 69th St Station to a fairly clean bus.

What a mess.

Meanwhile.....none of area suburban schools are gonna open in person. 23 Americans aged 5-15 have died of COVID-19 since 2/1. That's all existing health levels. Severe asthma, cancer, type 1 diabetes, leukemia, everything. At risk seniors are just left to literally die in the streets while we protect kids that have essentially zero vulnerability.

Could we possibly be doing this an more poorly?

https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Death-Counts-by-Sex-Age-and-S/9bhg-hcku

I think the framing of keeping schools closed to protect kids is silly. Schools should stay closed until we can assure that it won't lead to massive increase in cases in adults. At risk seniors often live with kids!
If we really want to get herd immunity in kids we should have sent them all to summer camp.

 

[jerry33]

In our culture where the attitude is any restriction on my freedom is unacceptable, even if it protects your freedom, it's unclear whether people would be responsible enough and invested in the common welfare – something our culture does not value – to do the right thing. Rugged individualism is not a good basis for a public health effort in a pandemic however. It's a shame because in a culture where people embrace social responsibility, the widespread distribution of these kits would allow us to virtually stop transmission dead in its tracks. Literally.

All that said, I think there are enough socially responsible people who will use this test and perform the other actions (masks, go out only when necessary, hygiene, and distancing) that it would make a big dent in the number and severity of the cases. I suspect there are fewer of the socially irresponsible class than is depicted by the media. Just think of the Trump rally in Oklahoma and how many people actually showed up. The ones that didn't show up were acting responsible (or perhaps sanely is a better term).

 

[ggr]

This is a good, thoughtful read:
The Plan That Could Give Us Our Lives Back

 

[bkp_duke]

This is a good, thoughtful read:
The Plan That Could Give Us Our Lives Back

Won't happen. I've come to realize that even if Biden is elected, this is a country of ARROGANT MORONS that will listen to no one. People with less than high school educations believe they have the RIGHT to do anything they want, even if it puts others in jeopardy, and even if there is AMPLE evidence against their opinion.

No one wants the truth, they just want shards of the truth to "back up" their own misconceptions.

Thank God I retired from medicine. I would probably have been sued this year for calling people what they are: stupid.

 

[TSLAopt]

Won't happen. I've come to realize that even if Biden is elected, this is a country of ARROGANT MORONS that will listen to no one. People with less than high school educations believe they have the RIGHT to do anything they want, even if it puts others in jeopardy, and even if there is AMPLE evidence against their opinion.

No one wants the truth, they just want shards of the truth to "back up" their own misconceptions.

Thank God I retired from medicine. I would probably have been sued this year for calling people what they are: stupid.

Just curious, with all of your knowledge and expertise in the field of medicine/health, do you also believe red meat, saturated fat, and high cholesterol is bad for you?

 

[bkp_duke]

Just curious, with all of your knowledge and expertise in the field of medicine/health, do you also believe red meat, saturated fat, and high cholesterol is bad for you?

There are no absolutes (I'm suspecting you were trying to get something out of me like that).

Saturated fat is bad for you, in excess.
Cholesterol is bad for you, in excess.

In fact, what we need to do to make medicine better, is to customize our recommendations to the genetic profile of the specific patient.

For example, patients with hypercholesterolemia should have very different sets of recommendations than patients with hypertriglyceridemia, which should be very different than patients with Apo E varients that cause "low" cholestrol.

That will be where medicine moves in the next 100 years (genetic profiling, metabolomics, etc).


Until then, I can say, for fact, that the more "processed" your diet, the worse the food is for you. Our bodies, genetically, are not designed to cope with highly processed foods.

 

[madodel]

Just curious, with all of your knowledge and expertise in the field of medicine/health, do you also believe red meat, saturated fat, and high cholesterol is bad for you?

My wife's a cardiologist. Meat, especially red meat is not good in large quantities. If you have hypercholesterolemia then meat and cheese should be real sparing in your diet. Besides the cholesterol red meat also has GI cancer risks. But other than not ingesting lead, mercury and a bunch of other toxic things eating most food items in moderation is the best course. Obesity and smoking are the major reasons she ends up seeing most people. Cardiac cath and placing stents or surgery is only a temporary reprieve if they don't change their diet and exercise. She recommends vegetarian diet to her patients to improve and maintain their health. But even that can be bad for you if it is heavily processed. I'm vegetarian. We stopped eating red meat 30 years ago, but she still eats poultry and fish. But very few carbohydrates and very little if any pasta. Lots of salads. She's in amazing shape though she also has a daily exercise routine.

 

[TSLAopt]

There are no absolutes (I'm suspecting you were trying to get something out of me like that).

Saturated fat is bad for you, in excess.
Cholesterol is bad for you, in excess.

In fact, what we need to do to make medicine better, is to customize our recommendations to the genetic profile of the specific patient.

For example, patients with hypercholesterolemia should have very different sets of recommendations than patients with hypertriglyceridemia, which should be very different than patients with Apo E varients that cause "low" cholestrol.

That will be where medicine moves in the next 100 years (genetic profiling, metabolomics, etc).


Until then, I can say, for fact, that the more "processed" your diet, the worse the food is for you. Our bodies, genetically, are not designed to cope with highly processed foods.

Proves my suspicion...thanks

 

[dfwatt]

Proves my suspicion...thanks

I probably shouldn't take your bait - I've seen your thought process on this already but exactly what suspicion is that?

 

[TSLAopt]

My wife's a cardiologist. Meat, especially red meat is not good in large quantities. If you have hypercholesterolemia then meat and cheese should be real sparing in your diet. Besides the cholesterol red meat also has GI cancer risks. But other than not ingesting lead, mercury and a bunch of other toxic things eating most food items in moderation is the best course. Obesity and smoking are the major reasons she ends up seeing most people. Cardiac cath and placing stents or surgery is only a temporary reprieve if they don't change their diet and exercise. She recommends vegetarian diet to her patients to improve and maintain their health. But even that can be bad for you if it is heavily processed. I'm vegetarian. We stopped eating red meat 30 years ago, but she still eats poultry and fish. But very few carbohydrates and very little if any pasta. Lots of salads. She's in amazing shape though she also has a daily exercise routine.

Have you or your wife ever tried a zero carb/carnivore diet?
Sounds like your wife leans towards that...what is your wife’s view on organ meats like liver?

 

[madodel]

Have you or your wife ever tried a zero carb/carnivore diet?
Sounds like your wife leans towards that...what is your wife’s view on organ meats like liver?

Did you read what I wrote? Your response is hilarious.

 

[JRP3]

. At risk seniors are just left to literally die in the streets while we protect kids that have essentially zero vulnerability.

Teachers, administrators, cafeteria workers, janitors, aids, volunteers, bus drivers, parents, and everyone who comes into contact with all of those people outside of school...getting the picture yet?

 

[JRP3]

Have you or your wife ever tried a zero carb/carnivore diet?

Why? That would be insane. We aren't carnivores. Also, completely off topic here.

 

[ggr]

Won't happen. I've come to realize that even if Biden is elected, this is a country of ARROGANT MORONS that will listen to no one. People with less than high school educations believe they have the RIGHT to do anything they want, even if it puts others in jeopardy, and even if there is AMPLE evidence against their opinion.

No one wants the truth, they just want shards of the truth to "back up" their own misconceptions.

Thank God I retired from medicine. I would probably have been sued this year for calling people what they are: stupid.

Yes, saw one just this morning in Bruegger's Bagels in Pacific Beach. Walked in with no mask, server said "you have to have a mask", so he holds a cloth to his face, "No, it has to stay on by itself", so he pulls his t-shirt up but it won't stay up. Eventually swears at them and leaves.

 

[madodel]

Yes, saw one just this morning in Bruegger's Bagels in Pacific Beach. Walked in with no mask, server said "you have to have a mask", so he holds a cloth to his face, "No, it has to stay on by itself", so he pulls his t-shirt up but it won't stay up. Eventually swears at them and leaves.

Guess he just wasn't aware of what's been going on for the last 8 months after just coming out of his coma. Hahahahaha

 

[tcpilot]

VISUAL PROOF that masks work (even the doubters should have problems disputing this):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeEBn4ttZZY

@bkp_duke, regarding your "arrogant morons" comment, this is a video that has been making its way around Facebook lately.

"Anesthesiologist" and "Epidimiologist" sound kinda similar, so...

/TCP

 

[madodel]

@bkp_duke, regarding your "arrogant morons" comment, this is a video that has been making its way around Facebook lately.

"Anesthesiologist" and "Epidimiologist" sound kinda similar, so...

/TCP

It is a political play acting.

I liked the comment suggesting a plastic bag as the best fit for this guy.

 

[bkp_duke]

@bkp_duke, regarding your "arrogant morons" comment, this is a video that has been making its way around Facebook lately.

"Anesthesiologist" and "Epidimiologist" sound kinda similar, so...

/TCP

Yeah, you kinda miss the point.

Like so many people here you think BINARY. It does, or does not help.

That thinking, patently, is simpleton and incorrect.

The point to masks is to reduce transmission primarily (it's ANALOG - degrees of reduction - not absolute). The main point of mask usage that matters is that a mask blocks some of the droplets, not ALL of them. Sure, in an ideal world we would want it to block ALL droplets from escape (i.e. a true N100 mask), but we won't get that, so reducing the number of infectious particles in the air (especially in crowded situations) is always a benefit, and it has been shown definitively to reduce R0 in and of itself.

If you feel so strongly against masks, next time you have surgery, PLEASE PLEASE ask your surgeon to not wear his mask. Please also videotape his response for the rest of us, we really would want to see it. Also, please reply to that doc on the video and ask him if he would be locked in a room with a COVID-19 patient for an hour, and agree that both he and the patient not wear masks. If he says anything but he would want them both wearing masks (and be as far apart as possible), he's lying.



BTW, thank you for exemplifying my point of "picking out a shard of evidence and ignore the whole body of evidence" to try and support your opinion. For every 1 doc you find that disagrees with masks, I can come up with 10 studies and 100 docs that agree that mask usage works to slow the spread. That is what we call looking at the body of evidence as a WHOLE, not cherry picking to support a weak argument.

And just for you, I'll even go FAR RIGHT for a publication for this one:
Face Masks Really Do Matter. The Scientific Evidence Is Growing.

 

[dfwatt]

Yes, saw one just this morning in Bruegger's Bagels in Pacific Beach. Walked in with no mask, server said "you have to have a mask", so he holds a cloth to his face, "No, it has to stay on by itself", so he pulls his t-shirt up but it won't stay up. Eventually swears at them and leaves.

Every business needs a big supply of this sign