Coronavirus

[cucubits]

I'm late to the game but my vote was 'Clorox Syringe'

Not too late. Good for you on making it through. I also would wish they'd used this as treatment (per his own suggestions from a while back).

Most likely no-one will get to see this, I think one of the mods took a special interest in me and deletes all my posts on this thread, while others who pretty much write the exact same thoughts get a pass.

On-topic, apart from what I mentioned above, this is a good place to talk about the latest info, sort of spread the research and not rely on one/few media outlet which may or may not tell us the whole picture.

 

[Daniel in SD]

"I didn't want to give any information that might steer the illness in another direction."
Is the Coronvirus watching these press conferences?
Must have something to do with 5G and Bill Gates implantable microchips. Need to check the QAnon forums...

 

[SageBrush]

"I didn't want to give any information that might steer the illness in another direction."
Is the Coronvirus watching these press conferences?
Must have something to do with 5G and Bill Gates implantable microchips. Need to check the QAnon forums...

Is that Conley ? he certainly fits the mold of being a trump minion moron.

Fwiw though, my prism for parsing WH comments comes down to this:

• They will spin the truth as much as their supporters will tolerate but that usually precludes bald faced lies. E.g. I don't expect the WH to say trump is alive if he is dead.
• Any way to spin news as positive will be front and center
• Negative news is hidden if at all possible, or at least delayed

An example: Let's say trumps O2 saturation was 80% (bad) in the AM, 88%( low but "normal") at noon, and 75% (get intubation ready) at the moment. The WH will happily declare that trump has made excellent progress and his O2 Sat has returned to normal today.

 

[bkp_duke]

Spoiler alert: His lung scan shows he has pneumonia.
I'm not sure what they think they're accomplishing by not just saying that. It's a pretty common symptom!

Questionable, at best, to call this pneumonia. Even routine colds can cause X-Ray findings at times.

Clear-cut pneumonia would be:
1) lobar consolidation on X-Ray or CT (he did not have that, per description he had "mild" findings where were probably interstitial infiltrates)
2) pronounced and sustained O2 desaturations and increased work of breathing (intermittent O2 sat drops do not count - a lot of people get those even when they sleep at night)
3) prolonged and continued fever (i.e. active and spreading infection)



Given he is now 48h without fever, which is the best and clearest indicator of on-going infection and cytokine/bradykinin pathway activation, I expect that everyone that wants him to get worse and die is going to be sorely disappointed. I would not be surprised if he is not back in the WH by tomorrow, and back on the campaign trail in a week.

 

[SMAlset]

I was reading the LATimes article in astonishment.

“ “It came off that we were trying to hide something,” he said, saying that had not been their intent.”
How not so?

“ Another of the medical team, Dr. Brian Garibaldi of Johns Hopkins University, said Trump was “up and around” and feeling well.

“Our hope is that we could plan for a discharge as early as tomorrow,” he said. At the same time, however, the doctors said that Trump was only mid-way through a five-day course of Remdesivir, an anti-viral drug that medical experts have said would be unlikely to be provided outside a hospital setting.“

Again has you saying “Really”?

The comment about oxygen saturation Not being in Low 80s had me thinking okay it’s been in the mid-80s then...

Ashish Jha, dean of the Brown University School of Public Health In the article said pretty much what you guys were saying last night...which is why I like coming here to read comments.

Trump receiving powerful lung drug, doctors disclose, revealing more serious symptoms

(from brief cursory try BTW turning off Java script gave me access to LATimes but did take away other web features. Didn’t however give me access to Bloomberg’s app stories, still running into their paywall—now offering 8 weeks I think for $1.)

 

[bkp_duke]

I was reading the LATimes article in astonishment.

“ “It came off that we were trying to hide something,” he said, saying that had not been their intent.”
How not so?

“ Another of the medical team, Dr. Brian Garibaldi of Johns Hopkins University, said Trump was “up and around” and feeling well.

“Our hope is that we could plan for a discharge as early as tomorrow,” he said. At the same time, however, the doctors said that Trump was only mid-way through a five-day course of Remdesivir, an anti-viral drug that medical experts have said would be unlikely to be provided outside a hospital setting.“

Again has you saying “Really”?

Ashish Jha, dean of the Brown University School of Public Health In the article said pretty much what you guys were saying last night...which is why I like coming here to read comments.

Trump receiving powerful lung drug, doctors disclose, revealing more serious symptoms

(from brief cursory try BTW turning off Java script gave me access to LATimes but did take away other web features. Didn’t however give me access to Bloomberg’s app stories, still running into their paywall—now offering 8 weeks I think for $1.)

It would be absolutely no problem to provide the president a once-a-day IV infusion in the WH residence.

I love all the arm-chair doctoring going on by the left wing media, you can just see them foaming at the mouth hoping he takes a turn for the worse.

COVID-19 is a prolonged respiratory infection, so we just need to sit back and watch this one, but if he's not had a fever in 48h and not needed "significant" oxygen (i.e. above 2L on a nasal canula), I would be fine sending him back to the WH. It's not like he won't be monitored closely where-ever he is.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

, I expect that everyone that wants him to get worse and die is going to be sorely disappointed.

I don’t want that. As far as I am concerned this is proceeding along close to the optimal course so far.

At the same time, however, the doctors said that Trump was only mid-way through a five-day course of Remdesivir, an anti-viral drug that medical experts have said would be unlikely to be provided outside a hospital setting.“

He is the President of the United States. They will give him remdesivir whereever they want to.

There is no reason that I am aware of that the White House medical unit cannot be equipped with nearly everything that is needed if he crashes. There is probably some additional risk vs. Walter Reed but I would guess it is small. I suppose maybe ECMO would be a bridge too far, but I would guess there would be time to anticipate & ability to medevac for that.


Herman Cain is very excited about the prognosis.

 

[bkp_duke]

I don’t want that. As far as I am concerned this is proceeding along close to the optimal course so far.



He is the President of the United States. They will give him remdesivir whereever they want to.

There is no reason that I am aware of that the White House medical unit cannot be equipped with nearly everything that is needed if he crashes.

Herman Cain is very excited about the prognosis.
View attachment 595287

I concur, I just hear the comments/questions in that video and you can really see the journalists wanting to find some detail to latch on to so that they can say "he's going downhill".

The medical facts released to date do not support that conclusion at this time.

 

[SMAlset]

I guess given the statements previously made it makes you wonder really what the facts are.

 

[bkp_duke]

I guess given the statements previously made it makes you wonder really what the facts are.

I have seen absolutely nothing to indicate that his physicians have given false or misleading statements.

I don't care anything about what the media says, or what his staff says. The physicians are who I trust and they have given ZERO indication to date that they are not trustworthy.

 

[Yuri_G]

I have seen absolutely nothing to indicate that his physicians have given false or misleading statements.

I don't care anything about what the media says, or what his staff says. The physicians are who I trust and they have given ZERO indication to date that they are not trustworthy.

I could be wrong, but his physicians are saying his condition is improving, yet they put him on dexamethasone. The statements and that action seem to send confusing signals to me.

 

[Doggydogworld]

.... and Christie went massless in the debate prep ...

Pure gold.

Superspreader events are one of our best sources of COVID transmission knowedge. This event has by far the most data available with all the photos, videos, participant tracking and pre- and post-testing. Unfortunately I doubt scientists will be allowed to study it.

Given he is now 48h without fever,...

He never said fever free without medication. I'm sure you think I'm splitting hairs, but we have to. Look at how Dr. Conley dodged the reporter who asked if President Trump's blood oxygen dropped below 90%. When pressed he then said it never dropped "into the low 80s". Good grief. He doesn't go up there and lie outright, but he obviously plays word games. You'd be a fool to take him at face value.

He's in a tough position. His patient told him not to reveal certain things, so under HIPAA he must keep them confidential. Try playing a game of 20 questions with a bunch of sharp reporters under those conditions. That's be tough for even the most seasoned PR pro, which he is clearly not.

On a related note, has anyone started a pool of how long before Mark Meadows "spends more time with his family"?

 

[bkp_duke]

I could be wrong, but his physicians are saying his condition is improving, yet they put him on dexamethasone. The statements and that action seem to send confusing signals to me.

At first glance, they can be, but you need to bear in mind that President is not being treated by "Standard of Care". He's literally going to get the kitchen sink approach by his physicians and be given anything that has any reasonable degree of proven efficacy.


The two MOST important clinical indicators are:
1) Fever
2) Lung Function - measured by "work of breathing" and O2 saturation.

48h without fever is a very good prognostic indicator. Slight O2 usage is not the best, but COVID-19 in the lungs usually progresses fast, and being off O2 is also a very good prognostic indicator.

 

[bkp_duke]

Pure gold.

Superspreader events are one of our best sources of COVID transmission knowedge. This event has by far the most data available with all the photos, videos, participant tracking and pre- and post-testing. Unfortunately I doubt scientists will be allowed to study it.

He never said fever free without medication. I'm sure you think I'm splitting hairs, but we have to. Look at how Dr. Conley dodged the reporter who asked if President Trump's blood oxygen dropped below 90%. When pressed he then said it never dropped "into the low 80s". Good grief. He doesn't go up there and lie outright, but he obviously plays word games. You'd be a fool to take him at face value.

He's in a tough position. His patient told him not to reveal certain things, so under HIPAA he must keep them confidential. Try playing a game of 20 questions with a bunch of sharp reporters under those conditions. That's be tough for even the most seasoned PR pros, which he is clearly not.

On a related note, has anyone started a pool of how long before Mark Meadows "spends more time with his family"?

Those of us that have treated patients with fevers know that sick patients will spike a fever through Tylenol and Motrin easily.

There is also no therapeutic benefit to having him on Tyenol or Motrin to "prevent fever". We don't do that to patients we are monitoring in the hospital or at bedside at home, because we want to know if there is a fever because it is so valuable a prognostic indicator. So 48h without fever, by all standard medical definitions, is without being on any "antipyretics" as well.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I have seen absolutely nothing to indicate that his physicians have given false or misleading statements.

On Saturday:

* "yesterday and today he was not on oxygen"

This was a false statement. Not even just misleading. (Fortunately it was obviously a false statement at the time. I guess as a corollary to “it is not a lie if you believe it,” we can say “it is not a lie if no one else believes it?”)

I guess you hear/see what you want to hear/see!

I guess you could argue that Dr. Conley is not his physician.

 

[TheTalkingMule]

Those of us that have treated patients with fevers know that sick patients will spike a fever through Tylenol and Motrin easily.

There is also no therapeutic benefit to having him on Tyenol or Motrin to "prevent fever". We don't do that to patients we are monitoring in the hospital or at bedside at home, because we want to know if there is a fever because it is so valuable a prognostic indicator. So 48h without fever, by all standard medical definitions, is without being on any "antipyretics" as well.

Wow, quite a change in tone for you on the severity of this virus! I could've sworn you were doom and gloom the last 7 months, but now a fat 74 year old wildly unhealthy male doesn't even need Tylenol? It's a miracle!

He literally looked like a painted corpse in yesterday's video. I guess he is probably getting about $400-600k worth of treatment/care this weekend, so perhaps he'll do relatively well. The idea he's gonna perk up and get back to normal Wednesday is hilarious. My expectation is he'll come out of it about 50% better than Boris Johnson did, due entirely to the improved level of care and drugs we have now vs. then.

 

[madodel]

I concur, I just hear the comments/questions in that video and you can really see the journalists wanting to find some detail to latch on to so that they can say "he's going downhill".

The medical facts released to date do not support that conclusion at this time.

No one trusts anything coming out of anything related to Trump. And the responses were evasive which makes people even more leery that what is being said is anything close to the truth. Honestly I don't care what happens to the lying moron. I wish we could get back to discussing what is happening to everyone else who are touched by this disease, many of whom didn't go out of their way to get infected.

 

[kbM3]

I said about 900 pages ago in this thread, 6 months ago, that the ONLY countries that would be effective at locking it down are totalitarian countries (China, etc.). If you want to eliminate the virus with measures like that, you literally have to lock everyone in their homes and threaten them with mortal danger if they leave. China did that, pretty much no one else.



For the record, I will point out that when the current administration banned travel from China, there was OUTRAGE on the the other side of the aisle with calls of racism, etc.

Pick your poison people, you cannot have it both ways.

“The only countries effective in handling COVID-19 will be totalitarian“? You certainly have a super sophisticated sense of humor. I believe this joke went way over my head. You’re being humble by showing how far off this prediction was? Maybe if you had added a smiley face or something to indicate you were joking?

 

[bkp_duke]

What you guys are 100% missing is that after Trump gets past this (and he will, and quicker than most expect), you can 100% expect him to not wear a mask again. He will be "I've beaten this, I don't need to wear a mask any more". Just to set your expectations.

LoL.

Mind providing your credentials?

I have a M.D., with a residency in Pediatrics, and a Fellowship in Pediatric Endocrinology. I also have a Ph.D. in Molecular Biology and have worked first hand with viruses (Adenoviruses, not Coronaviruses). I have designed and provided to patients in the past with experimental therapies for unique genetic medical conditions (per IRB approval under compassionate care guidelines), and am therefore familiar with clinical trials and approval of experimental medications and treatments. As such, I'm very familiar with the molecular pathways involved both with metabolism and with virus activation of the immune system. I received full scholarships for both degrees. I no longer practice, for personal reasons (poor family life during practice - I rarely saw my family).

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Dexamethasone is apparently only indicated for severe and critical cases of COVID (requiring oxygen or ventilation), so at this point we can safely say the president has a “severe” case.

Seems like it is quite reasonable to expect it to be weeks for symptoms to fully resolve (assuming upward trajectory continues), though it is possible that resolution could be faster (or slower). I believe weeks is the most likely clinical course, though perhaps someone who has treated the disease could comment.

Seems like that is just the way it goes. It is what it is.

Again assuming no setbacks (not out of the woods yet, for sure), the next question is when will he test negative twice in a row, and will they adhere to that requirement? (The answer is: No, they will ignore that requirement, and take their chances.)