Coronavirus

[AlanSubie4Life]

Did you know (since you are a know-it-all) that the MAIN REASON we treat Scarlet Fever is not because of the immediate fever and rash?

Yes, I did know that. And I even knew what rheumatic fever was!

What I didn’t know was the distinction between scarlet fever and strep throat (I knew they were related but wasn’t sure on the details).

I also didn't know that rheumatic fever is thought to be caused by the body's antibody response (I thought it was actually related to the strep bacteria getting to the heart valves themselves).

 

[Double-O]

Thankfully my booster shot just made me feel crappy for about 36 hours. No heart issues with that dose.

Unfortunately, what you’re describing is the situation we’re in with the mandates right now. I do work on federal contracts and we had some seriously contentious meetings before Christmas where a few of the holdouts (full time telecommuters) were put on notice that they’d be fired if they didn’t get their shots… regardless of previous infection or adverse reactions to the first dose. CEO just told them it’s not our call this came straight from the White House.

The healthcare thing is really interesting, my sister works at a hospital and they fired a bunch of staff over vaccines and now have shortages during the omicron surge. A lot of the remaining vaccinated staff are out sick because the vaccine doesn’t really prevent omicron infection… so even though they are having mild cases they can’t come to work fora certain period due to a positive test.

I get both sides of it but it’s a mess.

Well, it's a mess is an understatement. This whole mandate makes zero sense. None whatsoever.

Healthcare workers in California who test positive don't require quarantine. Instead, they are able to continue working and treating covid+ patients while the unvaccinated and ones who had covid n recovered were eventually terminated. Some of the dumbest decisions being made by the people in power.

The blame of Healthcare shortage falls directly on this administration. If anything, they should have required each individual to test for antibodies and allowed for those who already recovered from covid to continue working. Some countries equate having and recovering from covid the same as being vaccinated which makes sense. Since every single decision that has been made thus far has failed, this option woulda been a "nothing to lose" option. Everyone who hasn't gotten covid yet eventually will at some point. Terminating Healthcare workers only made matters much worse for the general public who actually need the help. This didn't need to happen and shouldn't have happened.

 

[FloridaSun]

I'm vaccinated (2 shots of Pfizer), mostly due to corporate pressure (being inconvenienced for not being vaccinated) but I do oppose any mandates and I won't have any booster shots. At this point, you are NOT getting vaccinated to protect others.
Vaccinated individuals can have and pass on COVID19 just like the unvaccinated, so the claim that not getting vaccinated is putting others at risk is 100% false and that can be proven with statistics. So, the unvaccinated only are putting themselves at risk. There is no reason to protect people from themselves with big nanny state policies.
Also, I won't take any boosters because it will never end.. I'm not going to get a new shot ever couple of months when a new variant comes along. This is insanity. COVID19 is here to stay like the flu but due to previous infections and vaccinations, the death rate will continue to drop and eventually be like the flu. This is the only possible outcome and not Dictatorship like mandates.

 

[JRP3]

Vaccinated individuals can have and pass on COVID19 just like the unvaccinated, so the claim that not getting vaccinated is putting others at risk is 100% false and that can be proven with statistics.

Being vaccinated means you are less likely to get it and less likely to have a severe case, which means you're more likely to get over it faster if you do get it. All those things mean you're less likely to spread it. Getting a booster improves all that even more. Thus you are in fact putting others at risk, do not pretend otherwise.

 

[JRP3]

Genetic risk factor found for Covid-19 smell and taste loss, researchers say

Scientists are piecing together why some people lose their sense of smell after contracting Covid-19.

www.yahoo.com

 

[bkp_duke]

Vaccinated individuals can have and pass on COVID19 just like the unvaccinated, so the claim that not getting vaccinated is putting others at risk is 100% false and that can be proven with statistics.

This is only, SLIGHTLY true. Like everything, the devil is in the details.

YES - vaccinated individuals CAN get COVID and CAN spread it. But the important distinction is that they recover FASTER and therefore are infectious to those around them for a much shorter period of time. They also are at much lower risk of hospitalization and death.

As I've said here repeatedly - my physician colleagues that are in the midst of this tell me that they simply don't see vaccinated people in the ICU and on a ventilator, and they don't see them dying.

Honestly, I really don't care if you get vaccinated, boosted, or not. We're past the point of me having any empathy for the unvaccinated. As grandma used to say: "you can't fix stupid, so stop trying."

 

[advocate8]

This is only, SLIGHTLY true. Like everything, the devil is in the details.

YES - vaccinated individuals CAN get COVID and CAN spread it. But the important distinction is that they recover FASTER and therefore are infectious to those around them for a much shorter period of time. They also are at much lower risk of hospitalization and death.

As I've said here repeatedly - my physician colleagues that are in the midst of this tell me that they simply don't see vaccinated people in the ICU and on a ventilator, and they don't see them dying.

Honestly, I really don't care if you get vaccinated, boosted, or not. We're past the point of me having any empathy for the unvaccinated. As grandma used to say: "you can't fix stupid, so stop trying."

This is all accurate and really, really precise. It could not be put more perfectly or succinctly. I’ve heard EXACTLY the same from the medical directors of three large hospital systems and a senior VA official who is in their morning meeting every day assessing the situation at every one of their medical centers.

 

[golfcart]

This is only, SLIGHTLY true. Like everything, the devil is in the details.

YES - vaccinated individuals CAN get COVID and CAN spread it. But the important distinction is that they recover FASTER and therefore are infectious to those around them for a much shorter period of time. They also are at much lower risk of hospitalization and death.

As I've said here repeatedly - my physician colleagues that are in the midst of this tell me that they simply don't see vaccinated people in the ICU and on a ventilator, and they don't see them dying.

Honestly, I really don't care if you get vaccinated, boosted, or not. We're past the point of me having any empathy for the unvaccinated. As grandma used to say: "you can't fix stupid, so stop trying."

Vaccinated individuals can definitely catch and spread the virus, especially with Omicron, so any individual person may or may not catch and spread it whether they are vaccinated or not... that is a true statement. But at the group level, we can say that we'd see X% less severe cases, X% less hospitalizations, and X% less deaths if everyone was vaccinated vs nobody vaccinated... that is also a true statement.

So at the tail end of this he's right that we'll eventually reach an endemic state regardless of how many get vaxxed or boosted while the counter argument is that yes, you are right, but we can get there faster with less disease/death, mutations, and strain on the healthcare system if people just get the shot. IMO we're really talking about is the statistical benefit of everyone embracing a particular behavior and to what extend a behavior needs to statistically benefits society in order to justify us strongly enforcing or mandating it.

In the case of the vaccine there is not a lot of downside (for most of the population though the situation with young men IMO is not clear cut) and a good deal of upside which is why I think people should get them. However, I am much less supportive of punitive measures than many seem to be. You'd be shocked to see what people are willing to let the government do to their fellow citizens in the name of safety or "public health". Rasmussen just released a poll, and I really hate to post it because I don't want a partisan flame war to start over this, but large percentages of the population support digitally tracking unvaccinated people, confining them to their homes, putting them in facilities, and even removing their children...

Rasmussen Poll

 

[bkp_duke]

Vaccinated individuals can definitely catch and spread the virus, especially with Omicron, so any individual person may or may not catch and spread it whether they are vaccinated or not... that is a true statement. But at the group level, we can say that we'd see X% less severe cases, X% less hospitalizations, and X% less deaths if everyone was vaccinated vs nobody vaccinated... that is also a true statement.

So at the tail end of this he's right that we'll eventually reach an endemic state regardless of how many get vaxxed or boosted while the counter argument is that yes, you are right, but we can get there faster with less disease/death, mutations, and strain on the healthcare system if people just get the shot. IMO we're really talking about is the statistical benefit of everyone embracing a particular behavior and to what extend a behavior needs to statistically benefits society in order to justify us strongly enforcing or mandating it.

In the case of the vaccine there is not a lot of downside (for most of the population though the situation with young men IMO is not clear cut) and a good deal of upside which is why I think people should get them. However, I am much less supportive of punitive measures than many seem to be. You'd be shocked to see what people are willing to let the government do to their fellow citizens in the name of safety or "public health". Rasmussen just released a poll, and I really hate to post it because I don't want a partisan flame war to start over this, but large percentages of the population support digitally tracking unvaccinated people, confining them to their homes, putting them in facilities, and even removing their children...

Rasmussen Poll

You will read in this thread that I never supported mandates, except for hospital workers. That should just be a "job requirement" (and it is with other diseases that require vaccination).

I'm pretty libertarian, but I also have a brain in the cranium on my shoulders, and I know vaccines work (97-98% of doctors are vaccinated - they aren't wrong). If people don't want to take them, that's on them. Just don't expect me to have much sympathy for stupidity.

 

[golfcart]

Are you sure you’re telling them the truth?

Based on this research males under 40 are at much higher risk on myocarditis after a second dose of an mRNA vaccine than they are from a COVID infection.

Myocarditis study

Maybe the parents are on to something?

Interesting I got 2 disagrees for this post. Do y'all disagree with the study? My summary of the study? My assertion that the parents are in fact correct that the risk of myocarditis is higher for their teenage sons from the vaccine vs the virus (definitively for a second mrna shot and possibly for other doses)? Of course y'all can disagree with whatever you want but there really isn't much to argue with from that post... the data are what they are.

 

[Double-O]

I'm vaccinated (2 shots of Pfizer), mostly due to corporate pressure (being inconvenienced for not being vaccinated) but I do oppose any mandates and I won't have any booster shots. At this point, you are NOT getting vaccinated to protect others.
Vaccinated individuals can have and pass on COVID19 just like the unvaccinated, so the claim that not getting vaccinated is putting others at risk is 100% false and that can be proven with statistics. So, the unvaccinated only are putting themselves at risk. There is no reason to protect people from themselves with big nanny state policies.
Also, I won't take any boosters because it will never end.. I'm not going to get a new shot ever couple of months when a new variant comes along. This is insanity. COVID19 is here to stay like the flu but due to previous infections and vaccinations, the death rate will continue to drop and eventually be like the flu. This is the only possible outcome and not Dictatorship like mandates.

Be careful. This forum doesn't do well with people who have a different view than their own on the matter, regardless of the studies and facts. It's all fake news. Your opinionated posts may get moved to a closed thread by the mods. You keep that up and might even be put on timeout for spreading "false" information.

There are plenty of silent and vocal members who do agree with you though.

 

[golfcart]

You will read in this thread that I never supported mandates, except for hospital workers. That should just be a "job requirement" (and it is with other diseases that require vaccination).

I'm pretty libertarian, but I also have a brain in the cranium on my shoulders, and I know vaccines work (97-98% of doctors are vaccinated - they aren't wrong). If people don't want to take them, that's on them. Just don't expect me to have much sympathy for stupidity.

I am familiar with your stance and generally agree with you on this issue as far as I can tell (though I might question the practicality of firing unvaccinated medical workers during a period of worker shortages and high strain on the system). It was more of a general comment where I happened to reply to your post because it addressed a lot of the relevant points I wanted to make... I was really just agreeing with you and expanding on the points you made.

 

[golfcart]

Be careful. This forum doesn't do well with people who have a different view than their own on the matter, regardless of the studies and facts. It's all fake news. Your opinionated posts may get moved to a closed thread by the mods. You keep that up and might even be put on timeout for spreading "false" information.

There are plenty of silent and vocal members who do agree with you though.

Not just the forum... from the poll I posted above.

– Nearly half (48%) of Democratic voters think federal and state governments should be able to fine or imprison individuals who publicly question the efficacy of the existing COVID-19 vaccines on social media, television, radio, or in online or digital publications. Only 27% of all voters – including just 14% of Republicans and 18% of unaffiliated voters – favor criminal punishment of vaccine critics.

Apparently a lot of people would support fining or imprisoning him over that post. I am extremely pro-vax but that is scary.

 

[Double-O]

All hell would break loose in this country if they even considered doing that.

 

[bkp_duke]

All hell would break loose in this country if they even considered doing that.

Agreed. It would be civil war. Would make Jan 6 look like a picnic.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Not just the forum... from the poll I posted above.

– Nearly half (48%) of Democratic voters think federal and state governments should be able to fine or imprison individuals who publicly question the efficacy of the existing COVID-19 vaccines on social media, television, radio, or in online or digital publications. Only 27% of all voters – including just 14% of Republicans and 18% of unaffiliated voters – favor criminal punishment of vaccine critics.

Apparently a lot of people would support fining or imprisoning him over that post. I am extremely pro-vax but that is scary.

No. A lot of people would support the government having the power to seek to fine or imprison people in some cases.
Having the power != using the power on all people all of the time.

 

[golfcart]

No. A lot of people would support the government having the power to seek to fine or imprison people in some cases.
Having the power != using the power on all people all of the time.

From the report, this is how the question was worded.

Would you strongly favor, somewhat favor, somewhat oppose or strongly oppose a proposal for federal or state governments to fine or imprison individuals who publicly question the efficacy of the existing COVID-19 vaccines on social media, television, radio, or in online or digital publications?

I'm not getting your distinction in the wording of that question and I am not sure I would feel particularly better about the poll results even if your distinction was made.

 

[SDRick]

YES - vaccinated individuals CAN get COVID and CAN spread it. But the important distinction is that they recover FASTER and therefore are infectious to those around them for a much shorter period of time. They also are at much lower risk of hospitalization and death.

Due to the success of the vaccine, there are those who believe that the vaccinated can spread the virus more easily than the unvaccinated. Since the symptoms are often much less in the vaccinated, they tend to go about their normal routines, often not knowing they are even infected or just think they have an allergy or something. What say you?

 

[DarkandStormy]

Weekends and holidays are weird, but pending report-outs from today, the U.S. omicron wave has peaked. In terms of actual community case spread, the peak was probably around January 7th-9th. Those in the hospital with covid likely peaked just shy of 157,000 (there are ~920k staffed beds in the entire country - when fully staffed I'm assuming - for reference) on January 15th. This is in line with the data out of South Africa and the UK - omicron rises rapidly for about a month and then should fall off sharply. Those in the ICU with covid peaked around 26,000 as well. Hospital data is on a lag, so it's possible those #s go up a bit this week, but positivity rate and case #s are falling nationwide. Cases in the UK have been declining for 10-12 days now and the omicron wave appears to have peaked in Italy and France.

Just doing something rough math (and it may be wrong)...something like 1 in every 125 Americans has been hospitalized with covid at some point in the pandemic (assuming each person was only hospitalized once...given the nature of re-infections by different variants, this is perhaps not the safest assumption). Depending on which outlet you believe is most accurate, 1 in every 390 Americans has died from covid in the last two years. If you go by "excess deaths" since February of 2020, that number is 1 in every 350 Americans.

 

[Yuri_G]

Be careful. This forum doesn't do well with people who have a different view than their own on the matter, regardless of the studies and facts. It's all fake news. Your opinionated posts may get moved to a closed thread by the mods. You keep that up and might even be put on timeout for spreading "false" information.

There are plenty of silent and vocal members who do agree with you though.

No, I have an issue with people that post misinformation and poor studies as fact and use that to bolster their opinion. If you have high quality covid research to share, I'm happy to read and update my point of view on covid vaccines, treatment, etc.