EVNow
Well-Known Member
Yes - most people I see now wearing N95/K94. Even kids.
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Coronavirus
- Thread starter Wenche
- Start date
About 600 children die per year from car accidents. Seeing ~600 children die from COVID in a year is definitely a large increase in child deaths, but the number of children who die every year from all causes is so low that any increase is a huge percentage increase, but is not a big increase in actual numbers.
Looks like that whole thing about Florida cooking the COVID books was BS after all.
www.cnn.com
Fired data scientist's claims of Covid-19 data manipulation 'unsubstantiated,' Florida IG report finds | CNN
Allegations the Florida Department of Health fired an employee because she objected to manipulating coronavirus data were "unsubstantiated," according to a state inspector general report.
www.cnn.com
I was just responding to the poster who commented about worried parents with unvaccinated younger children (because it hasn't been approved for them yet). Reasonable people can disagree on what level of response is warranted for a given level of risk but I personally did not lose any sleep over my child being unvaccinated given those odds. Now that my child is vaccinated (and previously infected) my level of worry is about the same as it was before vaccination (basically zero). But I also conceded that some people worry more than others and some peoples risk tolerance is lower than others so I get that many are very concerned for their children despite the very low general risk level for that age group.
You sure read the 27 page document and came to that conclusion quickly. Another likely conclusion is that this was another media hyped hoax that wasn't actually true (I'd list the others but I am trying to stay out of politics quarantine despite your best efforts to take it in that direction). Believe what you want, I'm not here to argue with conspiracy theorists.Like anyone in Ron DeSantis current chain of command is trustworthy. When people tell you who they are believe them.
Can be related to the to challenge US Rep. Matt Gaetz could it ...
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bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
Like anyone in Ron DeSantis current chain of command is trustworthy. When people tell you who they are believe them.
Can't be related to the to the challenge of US Rep. Matt Gaetz could it ...
Inspector Generals of a state or the USA are generally above reproach and more importantly are usually not subject to political pressure (because they are appointments that usually span over many administrations). IGs stand generally as independent of the executive branch and cannot be removed by said branch, except for the most egregious of offenses (i.e. breaking of the law).
Moreover, this was posted on CNN, not exactly a right-leaning news org. The article even lays out, in plain English, how anyone can do this math themselves to verify the claim is false:
Finally, as the above poster asked, did you actually read the IG report? This was pretty slam dunk.
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Your attempts to get my original post thrown into quarantine by trying to turn this into a needlessly partisan political discussion will not work. The link I posted was not political and was directly related to the coronavirus thread because it addressed the issue of disputed COVID death counts. Nice try though.
scottf200
Well-Known Member
Seriously, until a few years back I used to think a lot of people in certain positions in the government and health departments were not subject to egregious political pressure.
I'm way way less naive now.
My last post related to this FL topic which I've followed since the beginning and various sources.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
My Family Got COVID. So Why Did We Test Negative?
As a science journalist, I’ve read dozens of research papers about COVID-19, and I’ve interviewed so many virologists, infectious disease physicians and immunologists over the past two years that I’ve lost count. But nothing prepared me for what happened after my 7-year-old daughter tested...
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
I think they never had COVID. Unlikely things happen.My Family Got COVID. So Why Did We Test Negative?
As a science journalist, I’ve read dozens of research papers about COVID-19, and I’ve interviewed so many virologists, infectious disease physicians and immunologists over the past two years that I’ve lost count. But nothing prepared me for what happened after my 7-year-old daughter tested...www.yahoo.com
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Having Covid but never testing positive is also an unlikely thing which can happen.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Seven days in a row with antigen tests and one PCR?
I know people who have gotten sick twice in the last year with other viruses before finally getting COVID.
Doggydogworld
Active Member
Reagan fired all 15 IGs the day he took office (he later re-nominated 5 of them). A couple of Bush's IGs 'resigned', reportedly under severe pressure. Obama fired one IG outright. Two years ago Trump fired five IGs/acting IGs in six weeks. As far as I know none of these were charged with crimes or accused of "egregious offenses".
IGs are hardly immune from political pressure.
The actual IG report addressed four allegations. The first two relate to a 4/26/20 meeting in which Rebekah Jones claimed Florida's Deputy Secretary of Health (Roberson) and others pressured her to cap the positivity display on her dashboard at 10% because some (mostly rural) counties with >10% might not be able to re-open. The meeting was not recorded, so it's he-said/she-said. The others deny pressuring Jones to "falsify Covid-19 data" and Roberson denies making the "specific statements" Jones claimed.
Anyone who has dealt with bureaucracy finds the complaint credible, if overstated. Bureaucrats strive to avoid making their bosses look bad. I'm quite certain they recoiled in horror upon seeing a bunch of 15 and 20% readings in counties that make up the Governor's base. They naturally discussed "reasons" (e.g. small sample size) to discard/hide/whatever the results. I doubt Roberson "ordered" Jones to change the display, but Jones was visibly upset after the meeting so it's pretty clear some pressure was applied.
The IG can easily structure questions to Roberson and others (e.g. "did you say these exact words, yes or no") such that they can deny Jones's claims without actually lying. The IG report also spills a lot of ink on hair-splitting - e.g. the Dept of Health did not have authority to close or open businesses so even if she had changed the display it would not have had any legal effect on ending lockdowns. All that is really beside the point, and looks a lot like misdirection to me.
Claims 1 & 2 were deemed unsubstantiated, neither proven nor disproven.
Claim 3 relates to the positivity calculation itself. It seems Jones either misunderstood the new case positivity calculation or just assumed the worst. The actual calculation looks legit to me. IG found the claim unfounded - the alleged conduct did not occur.
Claim 4 is about being ordered to delete the "data hub" which gave dashboard viewers access to underlying data. Roberson, et al say they did not originally realize this underlying data was accessible from the dashboard and ordered Jones to delete it because it might contain personally identifiable information. They had her put it back within 24 hours. The IG deemed this claim "exonerated" - factually correct but the actions did not violate any rule or regulation.
TL;DR - Bureaucrats reacted to a scary-looking display by doing what bureaucrats do, but being good bureaucrats they didn't specifically order anything illegal. Rebekah Jones got carried away and started finding conspirators under every bush. IG report is factually correct, but includes some whitewash.
Final comment - I really hope Florida voters get a choice other than this lady and Matt Gaetz.
As a Floridian living in Gaetz's district I can tell you I want anybody other than Gaetz. He is an embarrassment to us and to all men. And I can tell that watching our governor's actions regarding Covid and the 2020 election I can completely believe he would compromise an IG to make himself look better to Trump and his supporters.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
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CDC reports fewer COVID-19 pediatric deaths after data correction
The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported 966,575 deaths from COVID-19 on Friday after it corrected the data earlier this week, which reduced the death tallies in all age-groups, including children.
www.reuters.com
Data suggests Connecticut’s COVID death toll has been larger than official numbers say
Excess death statistics suggest Connecticut’s pandemic experience has been worse than...
Everybodys counts are off. Y'alls obsession with Florida is telling.
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bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
You are going to find this is every state. And the more populous states will have higher numbers. Anyone remember NY and the 12,000 more deaths than previously counted?
3,000 is about 4% of the total reported by FL to date:
/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/IFNYYK4P2RIPFAOYHLEXFWPYAY.jpg)
New York governor reveals 12,000 more COVID-19 deaths than previously counted
New York Governor Kathy Hochul revealed 12,000 more people died of COVID-19 than was reported under her disgraced predecessor, making good on her promise for greater transparency on just her second day leading the state.
www.reuters.com
I already discussed this back in February when this report came out and everyone jumped on Florida likely undercounting COVID deaths by 41%You are going to find this is every state. And the more populous states will have higher numbers. Anyone remember NY and the 12,000 more deaths than previously counted?
3,000 is about 4% of the total reported by FL to date:
New York governor reveals 12,000 more COVID-19 deaths than previously counted
New York Governor Kathy Hochul revealed 12,000 more people died of COVID-19 than was reported under her disgraced predecessor, making good on her promise for greater transparency on just her second day leading the state.
Institute Estimates 40% More Florida COVID Deaths Than State Data
Florida still performs better than most states when it comes to reporting deaths, according to the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation. USF epidemiologist Jason Salemi breaks down the numbers.
wusfnews.wusf.usf.edu
Of course what was not widely reported was the the same model showed the U.S. as a whole had likely undercounted by 58% and California was likely undercounting by 93%. Florida was actually pretty middle of the pack. Not great, but certainly not warranting the outside criticism and attention they received. There was probably a good bit of CYA going on across the board as well but I haven't seen anything to indicate that FL was particularly egregious in that regard compared to the rest.
What the recent social movements and general polarization in U.S. politics has shown me is that there are multiple ways of dishonestly trying to make someone or something look bad or corrupt. You can directly tell lies about that person or institution, or you can report things specifically about that person or institution that they did wrong and neglect to report the same thing when others have done it as well. This is the most common tactic used by various media sources in the internet age.
They don't necessarily lie outright (though many do that also), they just choose only to report the stuff that furthers their cause or makes their "opponents" look bad and neglect to report it if it doesn't help. It isn't particularly a partisan issue as pretty much everyone is doing it these days. That is why I always check multiple news sources with opposing ideological viewpoints when I take interest in an issue. My takeaway in this case is that every state (and country) is off on their COVID death counts (particularly early on in the pandemic) and the majority of it was not dishonest or intentional... some of it was incompetence but mostly it was just imperfect people and institutions scrambling to deal with something they weren't entirely prepared for.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Telling what ? BTW, do you mean by "obsession" one tweet I posted ? And who exactly is this group of "Y'alls" ?
Do you remember me posting about how NY governor screwed up by saying they have no Covid in NY when Covid cases first hit WA ? Or how Biden encouraged spreading of Covid in FL by insisting on in-person voting during the primary ?
I think Y'all obsessed about tribal, partisan politics instead of holding elected officials accountable.
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
No, not obsessed here, but I will fully admit that I feel the need many times to provide a "counterpoint" voice in the echo chamber.
The comment about the FL numbers being off was made in such a partisan way that I felt like it really needed to be pointed out that the problem with COVID numbers surpasses ALL political divides, and there have been both honest mistakes and nefarious reporting on both "sides".
Like you, the partisan bickering gets on my nerves.
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