Coronavirus

[dfwatt]

If it was COVID-17 or COVID-18 we would have published data. The Chinese registry says data will be published after 6 mos.

Meanwhile this is the best we got.

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This is exactly the kind of stuff that generates intense interest but our physician colleague bkp_duke is right to point out that absent data it's just a tease. I would encourage everybody to hold on to their horses and wait until there is more data. It is promising but I can tell you from lots of personal and professional experience that absent good data you end up jumping at mirages. If it is effective even just moderately effective in other words disease-modifying but not dramatically so, but cutting into the more severe manifestations in the highly morbid cases, good data will show this. Even that would be huge.

 

[AZRI11]

good idea. Others in china and Korea had this idea too.


They have a very recent good history in China and korea.



keep an open mind.



bingo.
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exactly.

Check out:

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and View attachment 522163

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And even just started an RCT for prophylaxis

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I know it's expired but if our health care system collapses this could be the only hope if it gets real in my world. About 60 pills, It's for my elderly parents. My mom has lupus and stopped taking it because her vision (side effect) became worse. Hope it stays unused.

 

[bhzmark]

it's just a tease.

It's also in the chinese guidelines (from the earlier article that I cited) and the korean CDC equivalent is recommending it: South Korea experts recommend anti-HIV, anti-malaria drugs for COVID-19

and there are lots of chinese studies underway

 

[dfwatt]

It's also in the chinese guidelines (from the earlier article that I cited) and the korean CDC equivalent is recommending it: South Korea experts recommend anti-HIV, anti-malaria drugs for COVID-19

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and there are lots of chinese studies underway

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Patience Grasshopper!
I share your enthusiasm about the possibilities here. We just have to wait and see what data comes out to support these Notions

 

[bkp_duke]

It's also in the chinese guidelines (from the earlier article that I cited) and the korean CDC equivalent is recommending it:

View attachment 522247

and there are lots of chinese studies underway

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Circular reasoning.

Both the Chinese and Korean guidelines reference the study (with the data they are not sharing) as the reason to include it in their guidelines.


This all reminds me of Vitamin D 10 years ago. So many promising "pilot studies" that implied it helped diabetes, heart disease, etc. After 10 years, not a one panned out.

 

[bhzmark]

Patience Grasshopper! I share your enthusiasm about the possibilities here. We just have to wait and see what data comes out to support these Notions

I'm just sharing real journal articles, relevant news articles citing sources who don't have time to polish a publication and other relevant information. you want me to stop? Forget it. I won't. Put me on ignore please.

 

[dfwatt]

I'm just sharing real journal articles, relevant news articles citing sources who don't have time to polish a publication and other relevant information. you want me to stop? Put me on ignore.

I appreciate your hard work on that. Not telling you to stop, just encouraging you to embrace standard scientific caution.

 

[bhzmark]

I appreciate your hard work on that. Not telling you to stop, just encouraging you to embrace standard scientific caution.

How would I share this useful informarion "with standard scientific caution"?

Did Nature use "standard scientific caution" when they published: Remdesivir and chloroquine effectively inhibit the recently emerged novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) in vitro

a letter saying: "Since these compounds have been used in human patients with a safety track record and shown to be effective against various ailments, we suggest that they should be assessed in human patients suffering from the novel coronavirus disease."

Was that reckless? without standard scientific caution? good grief you I'm putting both you guys on my ignore because you show zero sense of what it takes to explore novel treatments for novel viruses and how messy the process is.

 

[Bet TSLA]

Do go on. I just have a hard time understanding his recent tweets and emails in any other way. I'm interested in alternative interpretations.

Yes, I've noticed you have a hard time understanding many things, and yet you keep posting as though you do. Please stop. This is the wrong thread for discussing this topic in any case.

 

[dhanson865]

Totally agree, the bmi of the NZ all blacks rugby team must be sky high.

BMI is a pragmatic approximation, but yes, the fittest people often have high BMI. And TOFI is a real problem also.

FWIW I just looked up ANGUS TA'AVAO and his BMI is 33

arguably he is more fit than I am at a BMI of 25.

 

[bkp_duke]

How would I share this useful informarion "with standard scientific caution"?

Did Nature use "standard scientific caution" when they published: Remdesivir and chloroquine effectively inhibit the recently emerged novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) in vitro

a letter saying: "Since these compounds have been used in human patients with a safety track record and shown to be effective against various ailments, we suggest that they should be assessed in human patients suffering from the novel coronavirus disease."

Was that reckless? without standard scientific caution? good grief you I'm putting both you guys on my ignore because you show zero sense of what it takes to explore novel treatments for novel viruses and how messy the process is.

Basic question: do you know the difference between in vitro and in vivo?

Have you ever peer reviewed a journal article?

Have you ever done research that was published?

You have people here that can answer yes to all of those questions and you come at them like they are idiots. Not exactly driving support to your reasoning that way.

 

[dfwatt]

How would I share this useful informarion "with standard scientific caution"?

Did Nature use "standard scientific caution" when they published: Remdesivir and chloroquine effectively inhibit the recently emerged novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) in vitro

a letter saying: "Since these compounds have been used in human patients with a safety track record and shown to be effective against various ailments, we suggest that they should be assessed in human patients suffering from the novel coronavirus disease."

Was that reckless? without standard scientific caution? good grief you I'm putting both you guys on my ignore because you show zero sense of what it takes to explore novel treatments for novel viruses and how messy the process is.

I think you're now actively distorting what I'm saying. I would bet in my daily work as an editor for several scientific journals I have a keen bird's eye view of the messiness of the process of Science in a way that I doubt you do on a daily basis. I'm simply saying that absent a data set that can be peer-reviewed, and then just as critically, replicated in some fashion, claims are just that. Claims. I don't think you can really quarrel with that statement from a scientific standpoint. Perhaps you're not really talking about science but I'm not sure. At least not anymore

 

[dfwatt]

How would I share this useful informarion "with standard scientific caution"?

Did Nature use "standard scientific caution" when they published: Remdesivir and chloroquine effectively inhibit the recently emerged novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) in vitro

a letter saying: "Since these compounds have been used in human patients with a safety track record and shown to be effective against various ailments, we suggest that they should be assessed in human patients suffering from the novel coronavirus disease."

Was that reckless? without standard scientific caution? good grief you I'm putting both you guys on my ignore because you show zero sense of what it takes to explore novel treatments for novel viruses and how messy the process is.

Here's the problem. There is no issue around sharing findings and observations even if they're anecdotal, even if they lack double blind or even single blind data, and even if they have not been replicated. Indeed every great scientific discovery starts from that not so auspicious starting point. Where we part company is around the significance that you can attribute to and the confidence you can have in those very preliminary findings. I am simply encouraging you to view what you seem to be presenting as conclusive as very preliminary. That's all. Can you accept that kind of feedback? Or does that cause you to go ballistic?

 

[Dr. J]

Seems like a lot of countries in similar latitude as Mexico are fairing pretty well...

There could be reasons other than geography for that. Such as lack of testing, further behind in spread, etc. But I hope it's weather/geography.

 

[renim]

What exactly is the UK doing that's different from everyone else?

Britain's approach has three core elements:

1. enact social distancing measures much more slowly than other countries;
   
2. shield at-risk groups like the elderly and sick from contact with the general population;
   
3. and then let COVID-19 slowly sweep through everybody else.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe...g-the-coronavirus-spread-20200315-p54a5h.html

britain's response is to avoid the blue line scenario. which is SK/China's likely outcome anyway.

 

[shinytop]

I understand those of you criticizing the reports of combinations of malaria medicine and zinc as not being adequately tested. But if the anticipated numbers of cases grows and we are triaging the use of ventilators then I think a little out of the box thinking on treatments cannot be all bad. In particular in cases of medicines that have long been used on humans.

 

[Fobble]

I am proud that we come and work together during hard times. We did the same on 9/11, and several other natural disasters. I've just received the following message from my local power company. They are doing beyond an average business does, IMHO.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

There could be reasons other than geography for that. Such as lack of testing, further behind in spread, etc. But I hope it's weather/geography.

/economics.

It spreads because people travel, and it's easier to travel when you have more money.

 

[shootformoon]

If so, he should do it right now.

If anyone could get full respirator protection for his employees, it’s Elon. One call to China and they would bring dump truck loads to GF3.

 

[pz1975]

I just hard from a reputable source that the PM of Canada Justin Trudeau will be announcing tomorrow at 13:00 EST/10:00 PST that Canada will officially be shut down sometime tomorrow and all borders will be closed (although probably let Canadians come back home). Only essential services will allowed to continue. This is obviously very big news and I wonder how long until the US (or certain states) follow suit. I don't know any more details than that, and I cannot guarantee this is 100% accurate but my source is very good (and the news would not be surprising at all).