Coronavirus

[SageBrush]

Thank you for chiming in on the risks as these should be made clear, but this medicine is prescribed as a malaria prophylactic so it's generally well tolerated by a large part of the populace.

For your reading pleasure,
HCQ adverse effects
Plaquenil Side Effects: Common, Severe, Long Term - Drugs.com

 

[NicoV]

Trivia - Kirkland (Costco) coffee is Starbucks beans. Grind the beans, and you might actually like the taste better. We do. If you're pimpin' use a Jura machine.

I don’t get it why people go to Starbucks. We replaced our Nespresso with a Jura, and it will pay for itself within a year or so just based on the price difference between Nespresso capsules and coffee beans. Now that the entire family is home in lockdown, the payback time will be even less, in addition to keeping us safer.
I’m a software developer, and they say software developers are things that turn coffee into lines of code.

 

[jerry33]

I'm not sure it is worth the hassle, but if I was really keen on a cup of starbucks I would

Show up with my own cup,
Pour the starbucks coffee into my mug
Discard the starbucks cup
Wipe my hands and my cup and my credit card
Enjoy my coffee

I think a similar approach can be taken with any take out: either consume it hot in a clean utensil, or re-heat it at home. A quick googling found 70C as the magic temperature that removes viral transmission risk.

For those who are lazy, what about microwave?

 

[SMAlset]

But, no. I can’t touch the bag at Costco, because the person that stocked it, you know. /s

Every product you buy has been handled in some way by many contacts along the way.

 

[bkp_duke]

Thank you for chiming in on the risks as these should be made clear, but this medicine is prescribed as a malaria prophylactic so it's generally well tolerated by a large part of the populace.

To say there is only in vitro results in not true. There is growing evidence of in vivo results. And we are already seeing consensus shifting among health care professionals like yourself. For instance the doctors at this Washington hospital are now using it: Arun Sridhar on Twitter

Here's info on study that has been published
https://www.connexionfrance.com/Fre...ssful-Covid-19-coronavirus-drug-trial-results
https://www.mediterranee-infection....2020/03/Hydroxychloroquine_final_DOI_IJAA.pdf

That French "study" has NOT been validated by other researchers. It was not double-blind, placebo controlled, etc. etc. The paper has not been peer-reviewed. It also only examined 25 patients. Out of 250,000+ cases we have reported to date, 25 patients.

There is OPTIMISM that this might work, but chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine have both shown antiviral properties since the 1960s, for multiple viruses. In repeated studies for decades, not a single one of those in vitro studies has actually translated to any anti-viral activity in actual test cases.

When I see the actual HARD DATA, I'l get fully behind this. Until then, the repeated posting about this drug is giving a lot of fasle hope.

 

[Causalien]

FWIW to anyone with asthma that gets this covid19 crap, I am at day 11 and struggling to avoid ER.

My wife made a garlic salve that is rubbed into my chest and back so from both sides of lungs and have noticed it really helps improve things for a while, just have to keep up regular application I guess as it seems to weirdly enough be just as helpful or more as all my asthma medications, application is supposed to be every 4hrs but I have only used it maybe 2x daily, and not everyday but do notice the difference for a few hours after used, so I will have to get better about applying it. Get an old shirt to wear after it is applied, takes 15min to soak into the skin. Slightly repulsive, smells delicious, but seemingly works.

8 cloves garlic
2/3 cup coconut oil
3 tablespoons olive oil
blend smooth in blender and stored in fridge for up to 2 weeks

survive

Make sure you lay face down when sleeping at a decline with a pillow on your stomach so that the sputum drains out.

 

[shinytop]

Florida's governor doesn't have cajones to close all beaches. Many local governments have closed their beaches to include Miami-Dade. Hear in Pensacola we have not and the beach goers are not following separation rules that have been enacted. I was comparing my generation which was not so uninterested in the rest of the world. We were in Vietnam or marching to end the war and racism. So I guess a foreign war that killed 58K over 7 years was more of a threat than a virus that will likely kill as many in a period of months or a year.

 

[SMAlset]

some people (elected officials, no less!) love to bask in total ignorance. case in point:

GOP County Commission Chair Downplayed Pandemic in Kansas: Not That Many Chinese People Here

unbelievable.

there you go. One if Kansas’ more intelligent folks. Unbelievable doesn’tveven begin to describe it.

 

[X Fan]

For your reading pleasure,
HCQ adverse effects
Plaquenil Side Effects: Common, Severe, Long Term - Drugs.com

Trump is pushing for this drug big time during press conference whereby Fauci statement was he wasn't ready to support it yet (as a scientist he wants a controlled study/data and wants to prove things first vs. Trump's hope). @SageBrush, you'll be happy....I believe Trump is wrong here!

btw: President Trump states he won't support funds being offered that would allow stock buybacks.

 

[Causalien]

Very interesting. Perhaps this is just my confirmation bias talking, but that's how the disease has been "feeling" for a while - higher R0 (but R able to be effectively lowered by control policies, such as in China and South Korea), and a low IFR, with the CFR being misleadingly high due to how small a percentage of cases have been caught by testing.

I am getting a feeling that ya, the R0 is very high, but fatalities are elevated when there's a large concentration of people with diseases congregating in one place. Something we are not thinking about is viral load since many viruses can't live long outside a living being. Due to how long this thing can survive especially well on plastic (which is everywhere). In a setting like a hospital ward, you are basically constantly getting new viral load from other people coughing while your body is still fighting off the internal infection.

 

[bkp_duke]

Follow up to hydroxychloroqine / chloroquine debate:

This is a hot topic even among the medical professionals right now. There is a GREAT SUMMARY that was published 2 days ago on Medscape. I'm copying the full article here so that those who do not have access can see the summary of the various studies, and the controversy among physicians. PLEASE DO NOT CHERRYPICK any specific parts of this, as it presents BOTH SIDES of the argument.

 

[SMAlset]

Copying this over from the Investors thread...

Cuomo orders non-essential remain home, coronavirus cases top 7,100

" Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo on Friday ordered all employees of "non-essential" businesses to stay home. The order will go into effect Sunday."

"The governor on Friday again said that there is a critical need for more ventilators and he asked county health departments to loan or sell them to the state if they have any that are not in use.

"The ventilators are to this war what missiles were to World War II," Cuomo said. "We need ventilators.""

Hopefully Tesla or SpaceX can really come through and make ventilators.

What NY needed was planning already in place and masks. Ventilators are end of disease run use. And his order isn’t effective until Sunday? Why the wait? Didn’t they just shut down schools there after a lot of resistance? Clearly the 8K tests recently run showed what has been speculated — that its been out there spreading around for a while.

 

[bkp_duke]

WH News Conference right now - Trump states he "demands" that companies that get bailed out cannot do stock buybacks.

Hell yeah, I'm 100% behind that.

Typical Trump fashion, light on details, but I like the message.

 

[bkp_duke]

I roast coffee at home as well - green beans have a long shelf life and that allows me to have the freshest coffee on hand. It’s times like these that make me glad whatever disorder I have has forced me to try doing everything in life from scratch.

Wow, home roaster. That's hard core.

 

[PhaseWhite]

That French "study" has NOT been validated by other researchers. It was not double-blind, placebo controlled, etc. etc. The paper has not been peer-reviewed. It also only examined 25 patients. Out of 250,000+ cases we have reported to date, 25 patients.

There is OPTIMISM that this might work, but chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine have both shown antiviral properties since the 1960s, for multiple viruses. In repeated studies for decades, not a single one of those in vitro studies has actually translated to any anti-viral activity in actual test cases.

When I see the actual HARD DATA, I'l get fully behind this. Until then, the repeated posting about this drug is giving a lot of fasle hope.

I understand the conservatism here from you and other health care professionals, but I think getting a supply of the drug now might be a good choice for anyone with symptoms. They should consult their provider but the risk reward for someone who is having breathing problems seems to favor treatment as long as they aren't at risk for the worse side effects. Based on the preliminary results we are seeing from multiple small group studies this is already being implemented by health professionals so it's not just this non professional recommending it.

I get what you are saying about the need for double blind studies, but we have preliminary evidence reported from multiple studies now, in France, in China and in the US. And my worry is that by the time we have clear and convincing evidence for generally conservative health care practice in the US we may have many more deaths that could have been prevented, and that our supply of these drugs will be completely dried up. The fact that some medical professionals are prescribing them to each other "just incase" is telling.

 

[SageBrush]

For those who are lazy, what about microwave?

Hot is hot.
I think the important points are clean utensil, clean hands, and 70C+ food

 

[bkp_duke]

I understand the conservatism here from you and other health care professionals, but I think getting a supply of the drug now might be a good choice for anyone with symptoms. They should consult their provider but the risk reward for someone who is having breathing problems seems to favor treatment as long as they aren't at risk for the worse side effects. Based on the preliminary results we are seeing from multiple small group studies this is already being implemented by health professionals so it's not just this non professional recommending it.

I get what you are saying about the need for double blind studies, but we have preliminary evidence reported from multiple studies now, in France, in China and in the US. And my worry is that by the time we have clear and convincing evidence for generally conservative health care practice in the US we may have many more deaths that could have been prevented, and that our supply of these drugs will be completely dried up. The fact that some medical professionals are prescribing them to each other "just incase" is telling.

All that does is cause a run on a medication that might not be helpful, and keeps it out of the hands of those that NEED it (it is used by people with immunologic and rheumatological problems).

There is no in vivo data from the US - ZILCH.
China - they refused to publish their study, which is only of 100 patients. They refuse to allow peer review. Those are HIGHLY suspicious.
French - 25 patients, not blinded. On the scientific grading scale, this is at best a "grade D" study. We are never supposed to make treatment recommendations based upon anything less than multiple grade C studies, and preferably much more robust data.

I share your optimism, but I do NOT share your recommendations. They are premature.

 

[SageBrush]

as long as they aren't at risk for the worse side effects

They are

 

[JRP3]

Every product you buy has been handled in some way by many contacts along the way.

Which is why for the last 2 weeks all my deliveries sit in the garage for 3 days and I haven't been to stores. Canned and dried food is good enough for a while.

 

[jerry33]

Wow, home roaster. That's hard core.

I mill my own grain to make bread, and churn butter from cream. Once you start doing it, you'll never go back to pre-formatted ingredients.