MXLRplus
Active Member
No tie-in has been found. Are you a double-blind, see all the raw data sort of fellow? The numbers are so small that this could be virtually anything including mis-reporting / human error.
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Coronavirus
- Thread starter Wenche
- Start date
No tie-in has been found. Are you a double-blind, see all the raw data sort of fellow? The numbers are so small that this could be virtually anything including mis-reporting / human error.
So the pediatricians, ID and Immunology folks who are describing the syndrome so that other clinicians and the general public csn be aware of it and take appropriate measures when children demonstrate this are doing all this to cause panic? That is literally a psychotic idea. Stick to stock tips and statements about the economy and leave the biology and Healthcare issues to people who have a clue about it. You clearly don't.
PS we know the real reason why you're going after this syndrome as phony and cooked up. It might put the lie to the covid-19 minimization that this disease is only a problem for old people in nursing homes. Good luck with promoting your narrative that nobody except old people who are about to die anyway need worry about this. You won't impress anyone with your humanity, empathy or concern.
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bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
Literally, I'm a Medical Scientist with a M.D. and Ph.D. Furthermore, I was trained in pediatrics. I know how to evaluate ALL the data (and have yelled at MANY in this thread for cherry-picking one or two studies to back up their claims while ignoring the larger body of evidence).
Given the skin findings we've seen in some CONFIRMED pediatric cases, and the presentation of Kawasaki's Disease in some CONFIRMED cases, these reports cannot be IGNORED, which is what your post infers.
There is nothing conclusive at this time, but these case reports and case series should be followed up more closely (and will be). Furthermore, there are no NEGATIVE studies to provide evidence AGAINST what is reported here. So you have a bunch of positive findings, many in COVID-19 positive patients, and no data to refute those findings currently.
Any good pediatrician is going to take that, CAUTIOUSLY, and keep an eye out for similar findings.
From another article I had read it said the children’s cases either had shown they had tested positive for CV19 or had antibodies. You might recall that doctors are saying they are seeing this like a month or so later. If kids have been asymptomatic, like some adults, they would have been infected but likely not tested for CV. Given lack of testing and not meeting the criteria for testing, I can see why doctors at the time the kids symptoms for PMIS would be described as they were, because the infection was no longer active in them. I wouldn’t hold onto the “many, but not all...” as suddenly a number of kids all coming down at this time of something else. From what I understand of the Kawasaki(sp?) disease, it’s been described by doctors as a rare disease. The fact that so many kids have all of a sudden during this CV pandemic timeframe present with these rare disease-like symptoms is suspect and why doctors are alerting doctors and parents.
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bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
PMIS is looking like it might be something similar to Kawasaki's Disease, in general terms.
Kawasaki's is a generalized inflammatory response, primarily in the blood vessels, and has similar qualities of other childhood viral syndromes. Interestingly enough, we have never been able to nail down a specific virus or bacterium that causes Kawasaki's.
We treat Kawasaki's (inflammatory reduction) for two primary reasons - to reduce the length symptoms for the patients, and to prevent future complications (inflammation of blood vessels is BAD NEWS). It would not surprise me to see (eventually) something similar be recommended for PMIS.
TheTalkingMule
Distributed Energy Enthusiast
We've now transitioned so deeply into denial that we're tacking completely different diseases onto the covid tally. Step back and think about what you're saying.
You think it's a coincidence that the week after we find out kids not only aren't a mortality risk, but also likely don't asymptomatically spread, now Kawasaki cases are being linked to covid?
This is denial on the other end of the spectrum. Folks so motivated to "keep people safe" that they'll bend reality to fit their panic narrative. Once a significant group of people have something set in their minds they bend reality rather than change the model. Very similar to a blind Trump believer ignoring pussy grabbing, etc.
Children contract Kawasaki Disease, it's a terrible affliction. Perhaps covid is triggering it in some cases, but anything could be doing that. Certainly the flu could do the very same thing.
We're fabricating risks to children that aren't there.
You think it's a coincidence that the week after we find out kids not only aren't a mortality risk, but also likely don't asymptomatically spread, now Kawasaki cases are being linked to covid?
This is denial on the other end of the spectrum. Folks so motivated to "keep people safe" that they'll bend reality to fit their panic narrative. Once a significant group of people have something set in their minds they bend reality rather than change the model. Very similar to a blind Trump believer ignoring pussy grabbing, etc.
Children contract Kawasaki Disease, it's a terrible affliction. Perhaps covid is triggering it in some cases, but anything could be doing that. Certainly the flu could do the very same thing.
We're fabricating risks to children that aren't there.
This just seems so fitting for this thread and it is about COVID-19 so on topic. Not quite sure exactly why, but especially,
Indeed, in responding to the COVID-19 pandemic and the question of when and how the nation's economy should be reopened, we seem to have tapped the U.S. Strategic Stupid Reserve. The result has been a truly awe-inspiring display of America's matchless capacity for mental mediocrity.
I will not die of stupid | Column
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
New York has found that 14 percent of 1,300 NYC transit workers tested have antibodies to COVID-19. They also found that 12 percent of healthcare workers have antibodies. Surprisingly both these numbers are lower than the numbers they've found in the general population of 19.9% (people out shopping).
They previously reported 10% for NYPD and 17% for FDNY and EMTs.
It's crazy that groups that should have had more exposure have lower prevalence of antibodies. Not sure how to explain that.
Video, Audio, Photos & Rush Transcript: Amid Ongoing COVID-19 Pandemic, Governor Cuomo Launches New Initiative to Expand Access to Testing in Low-Income Communities and Communities of Color
They previously reported 10% for NYPD and 17% for FDNY and EMTs.
It's crazy that groups that should have had more exposure have lower prevalence of antibodies. Not sure how to explain that.
Video, Audio, Photos & Rush Transcript: Amid Ongoing COVID-19 Pandemic, Governor Cuomo Launches New Initiative to Expand Access to Testing in Low-Income Communities and Communities of Color
Data samples are skewed. We need bigger sets for the population in a truly random manner.
This isn’t the article I had intended to quote from about the positive tests and antibodies found in kids, but it’s another source stating basically the same thing was observed plus more info from Europe. This from a Gizmodo article from 5/8. In any event doctors are seeing a correlation to CV19.
“Pediatric doctors in the UK were the first to sound the alarm in late April. They had begun seeing a rise in children with symptoms that resembled two rare conditions: Kawasaki disease and toxic shock syndrome. These conditions, though distinct, are both characterized by widespread inflammation that attacks the body, often fatally without prompt medical treatment. Some of these children were found to have had an active case of covid-19, while others had blood results indicating that they recently survived an infection by the virus.
At the time, pediatric organizations in the U.S. stated that no similar reports had been made by doctors here. But last week, doctors at Stanford University in California reported the first possible case of the inflammatory syndrome in a 6-month-old girl who tested positive for the coronavirus (she was treated and recovered without complication). New York City health officials soon after reported that at least 15 children have been hospitalized with these symptoms.”
“Pediatric doctors in the UK were the first to sound the alarm in late April. They had begun seeing a rise in children with symptoms that resembled two rare conditions: Kawasaki disease and toxic shock syndrome. These conditions, though distinct, are both characterized by widespread inflammation that attacks the body, often fatally without prompt medical treatment. Some of these children were found to have had an active case of covid-19, while others had blood results indicating that they recently survived an infection by the virus.
At the time, pediatric organizations in the U.S. stated that no similar reports had been made by doctors here. But last week, doctors at Stanford University in California reported the first possible case of the inflammatory syndrome in a 6-month-old girl who tested positive for the coronavirus (she was treated and recovered without complication). New York City health officials soon after reported that at least 15 children have been hospitalized with these symptoms.”
Doggydogworld
Active Member
And don't forget all those Hispanics in Wuhan and Milan...
I guess mere math cannot hope to trump the Daily Democrat...
Massive oversimplification to illustrate the underlying math:
- People infected with disease X each infect 0.3 people per day for 10 days (Rt = 3.0)
- Disease X kills 1% of patients exactly 30 days after infection. None before, none after.
- State C has 100k currently infected people at 12:01 AM on day N
- These 100k infect 30k new people on day N
- Unelected & ignorant fascists close factories owned by world-saving hero at 11:59 PM on day N
- This unconstitutional power grab reduces Rt to 1.5 (0.15 per day for 10 days)
- On day N+1, 130k infectious people cause 19,500 new infections
Deaths on day N+30: 300
Deaths on day N+31: 195
QED
(Someone call the Daily Democrat!)
Hand-waving gibberish. Rt>1 means infections are expanding. When the infection rate expands, all things being equal the death rate in the population will increase.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that a short seller like yourself would try to throw shade and create confusion around any positive data. Par for the course.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Definitely a good reference site. However, good to always keep in mind that the number of active infections matters a great deal as well - not just the Rt value.
That number of infections is a key factor in determining how/when/what to open back up.
N5329K
Active Member
So just curious, is your advice to keep shorting the market hard, and avoid buying $TSLA, like it was when TSLA was $427 (now $819), and the NASDAQ was 6879 (now 9121)?
March 21 (TSLA $427; NASDAQ 6879):
(Unfortunately, the next trading day, the NASDAQ bottomed at 6861.)
March 24 (TSLA $505; NASDAQ 7417):
March 25 (TSLA $539; NASDAQ 7384):
April 2 (TSLA $454; NASDAQ 7487):
May 1 (TSLA $701; NASDAQ 8605)
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
It's not Kawasaki's. It's something similar in presentation, but unique to COVID-19. Just like the red sores/spots that were previously reported on kids in COVID-19.
It all, actually, fits in VERY well if you have the intelligence to think it though (you don't, you've clearly proven that).
1) Kids are the least impacted from SARS-CoV-2 infection. This is strong evidence that they produce the most robust immune response to the virus.
2) SARS-CoV-2 is known to enter cells using the Spike protein binding to the ACE-2 (Angiotensin-converting enzyme) receptor
3) The ACE-2 receptor, while on almost all cells, is very prevalent on blood vessels, meaning blood vessels could in theory easily be infected.
4) The small foot and hand lesions are classic "microangiopathic" findings. I.e. capillary blood vessel ruptures.
So, in theory, all this put together could be explained by:
The antibody response in children produces an antibody that binds not just to the Spike protein of the virus, but the Spike/ACE-2 protein complex. We've known from decades of work that immune responses NEVER produce a single antibody to clear out an infection, but instead hundreds to thousands of different antibodies, each unique to different protein components on the invading pathogen (in this case SARS-CoV-2). While the ACE-2 receptor will be viewed as "self" by the immune system, it is very possible that IN A LIMITED NUMBER OF PATIENTS, the immune system is producing an antibody to the Spike/ACE-2 complex (we know the Spike protein binds VERY tightly to the ACE-2 receptor). This antibody would then potentially cross-react to the ACE-2 receptor by itself once the infection was cleared. We know that the immune system makes mistakes like this sometimes (hence the entire field of automimmune diseases).
Where is your M.D. from?
And if you look at the investor thread, I've been in line with those people saying "open things up". Open it up, with precautions, but open things up. Your argument (that I want things shut down at all costs) falls apart in that context.
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
Possibly. The underlying "issue" is that the ACE-2 receptor is ubiquitously expressed. This virus could, in theory, cause all kinds of different presentations because it could hit different organs with different severity. I fully expect, based upon that, that there will be some limited cases of encephalitis, etc.
But as I mentioned above, this one smells to me of an immune cross-reactivity problem.
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
With medical workers, I'm absolutely sure this population has better baseline hygiene than most people. Yes, yes, I'm sure people have N of 1 examples that they can point out, but were are talking about a population as a whole. Plus, this group has been in PPE and covering themselves with disinfectants all the time at work, and likely at home when not at work.
MXLRplus
Active Member
You don't understand. 48% of the Hispanic pop is green card or WOP. They often live in overcrowded conditions and multi-generational housing. So they equate very well to the lower class workers in Wuhan.
Much like nursing homes, we should have protected these people better instead of protecting Rich White Dolts instagramming their Covid Workout details while they pretend to stay at home.
It's not genetic. Fremont CA is mostly Asian and has a very low infection rate, but they also lack a large population of migrant and day laborers.
And in many cities, it's black Americans who are living in these highly infectious situations.
The house is on fire so we decide to turn the hoses on the lawn so it stays pretty. It's the Democratic Way.
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