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The death rate for the young is 0.2%,

The hospitalisation rate is much higher, and I wouldn't want my lungs to look like some younger folk MRI pictures I've seen recently...sure, they're not going to die from it, but you're making it sound like a walk in the park for everyone who is young and doesn't have a comorbidity.

That is a fantasy.
 
I mostly use the Worldometers site, just because I got used to using it before I saw some of the others.

South Korea's serious/critical count makes no sense. It's been stuck on exactly 59 for days, even as ~15 patients perished.

Also, South Korea tracks contacts and tests almost obsessively (e.g. Love Motel article above). Italy.... does not. SK's 8k+ cases is a reasonable approximation of total infections. Italy has 30k known cases but probably 200k+ undetected ones. Two vastly different denominators.

I don't know exactly the weitght of these factors but:
* from what I read, the spread of SK was contained because the knew it was from that cult.
* SK tracks everyone, which is kinda worrying. Now they are thinking to apply the same for Italy, and I personally don't like that very much (extreme measures like those would be easy to maintain after this emergency)
* SK did *a lot* of tests, the probably know with much more accuracy the real number of positives.
* a lot of beds makes hospitals run smoothly. Unfortunately we have seen a "death multiplier" when an hospital is overwhelmed here in Italy...
 
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The ignorance of Elon lately proves my theory that some of the smartest people can be blind to what is obvious to so many. In the grand scheme of the world is a tesla the most important at this time?

If the situation gets bad I'm sure he will come around and figure out how he can contribute.

He may say "not a big deal", but he did do the capital raise at just the right moment. Did he know there was a virus risk to his business in China when they did the raise? I think maybe.
 
Some calm talk about this epidemic:

Some head-in-the-sand talk about this epidemic, you mean?

"If we assume that case fatality rate among individuals infected by SARS-CoV-2 is 0.3% in the general population — a mid-range guess from my Diamond Princess analysis — and that 1% of the U.S. population gets infected (about 3.3 million people), this would translate to about 10,000 deaths."

Without measures to slow down the rate of infection, you're not looking at infecting 1% of the US population, but 60-80%. Unless the author can point to figures that show significant pre-existing immunity in the population, that article made my bullshitometer explode. Writing "If" and then writing the following paragraphs as if your premise was true is fallacious at best.

"How can we tell at what point such a curve might stop?"

By asking epidemiologists to peer review what you write? The article is not even making a hypothesis as to why such a curve may stop (let alone a falsifiable one), it's just magical thinking, and ignores and entire field of science that experts are trained in.

Stunningly, the author is an epidemiologist, but I doubt he's going to let any of the other epidemiologists peer-review this -- it would get savaged, shredded and killed with fire.

His point about needing better data is accurate, but we can't wait until we have perfect data, and take our wishes for reality in the meantime.

"then flattening the curve may make things worse: Instead of being overwhelmed during a short, acute phase, the health system will remain overwhelmed for a more protracted period."

Again, that makes my bullshitometer explode. It engages in binary thinking, as if "being overwhelmed" is an all or nothing proposition. Given the choice, I know I'd rather be in a system that's overwhelmed and has to let 10% of the treatable people die than one that needs to pick the 10% to save...

"In the most pessimistic scenario, which I do not espouse, if the new coronavirus infects 60% of the global population and 1% of the infected people die, that will translate into more than 40 million deaths globally, matching the 1918 influenza pandemic."

That is not the most pessimistic scenario. That one is where the health services are completely overwhelmed and 7% of the infected people die.

The article first complains about the lack of data, but then makes a lot of conjectures that are *completely* unsupported by evidence, and even muses on scenarios outside of the confidence interval for the expected values for many things we can measure, albeit inaccurately (it's also untrue to say we have _no_ robust statistics. The number of deaths are an extremely robust statistic, even though it's a lagging indicator, and in Northern Italy the situation has become bad enough for the sample sizes to be large...)

For something a bit less "I just pulled some conjectures from where I should not have", and a published article instead of a shabby opinion piece, read this:

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/im...-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf
 
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And look what Mother Nature just published! [WARNING: not an RCT -- just in vitro + clinical anecdotes + intelligent reasoning + understanding need to share info and hypotheses prior to RCTs]

Hydroxychloroquine, a less toxic derivative of chloroquine, is effective in inhibiting SARS-CoV-2 infection in vitro

View attachment 523031

. . .

View attachment 523032

That's not "clinical". It says in the title IN VITRO. Yet another test-tube result, which we've known for weeks now.
 
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Do you have data for that, for South Korea? I have been watching the South Korea numbers for some time, and the fatality rate is definitely going up over time! About a week ago they were at about 50-60 deaths with a very similar case count to now. Guess I need to pull up the Way Back machine on Worldometer.
EDIT: I checked - a week ago they were at 7700 cases with 60 deaths. Now they are at 8400 with 84 deaths. Two weeks ago they were at 5500 cases with 30 deaths.

Clearly the increasing trend you would expect even if infection to death were just 1 week, in the presence of exponential case growth followed by a plateau.

The other cases are not as relevant due to lack of testing, demographics, collapse of the health care system, etc.

Anyway, we’ll see what happens in Germany.



Yeah that is not surprising, because at first they had no testing, and there were a whole bunch of people who got better on their own so were not included in CFR. In addition they expanded hospital capacity and were able to provide better care when case counts were near a peak and had better results at that point vs slightly earlier in the outbreak.

Surprisingly, kind of the same boat the United States is in, even though we had two months to prepare.
One of the biggest problems with the world pandemic of 1918 was the countries governments lies. Is what China is telling the world a 100% true? What we need is for government to tell us the truth. That may be impossible in certain obvious countries. Some do not present themselves to the hospital until it is a must for them to do this. This makes the math difficult to impossible. The time to shut down plane travel was months ago. "but it is evolving hourly" right like we can not see from other countries where this is going?
 
Wow. I hope someone sends you this post when you cross 65. Perhaps by then they will just send 65+ straight to the guillotine.

Why 65?

Logans_run_movie_poster.jpg


[Disclaimer: I'm well over 30, and still alive because people who get an appendicitis at age 34 don't die of peritonitis thanks to health services and antibiotics]
 
Australia has 25 million (?) people and plenty of movement of people with China.

Mexico, where it is early summer, also has a low rate. Within the U.S. how Florida does in the next month may be indicative of virus spread in summer.

I'm not defending a position that warm weather makes a big difference. I'm just being hopeful.

Mexico really isn't testing. Close enough to the border and have day workers on site for some landscaping. None of them care and we had a conversation about it the other day. The ones from Tijuana say that no one down there is taking it seriously.
 
Not to squash the party, but it’s in vitro effects are well documented for a loooong time now.

In VIVO anyone? We do have some, but we need all the results on that now. Seems to have been used on thousands of patients show us the numbers.

AFAIK, there are two small HCQ studies that both look promising.

Co-author of one of the studies says that a large clinical trial is in the works as a preventative for people at high risk (like ER docs).

HCGClinicalTrial.png


Not sure why they are not simultaneously doing a clinical trial for use as a treatment for those already infected (unless it would be deemed unethical to withhold from patients in the control group?). Or maybe someone will -- given how fast they see a response (w/n a few days) they could get at least preliminary results very quickly. In the meantime, it would be nice to see a disciplined analysis of comparative data from areas that use HCQ/CQ and those that don't, even though it might be hard to draw any firm conclusions without good controls.
 
AFAIK, there are two small HCQ studies that both look promising.

Co-author of one of the studies says that a large clinical trial is in the works as a preventative for people at high risk (like ER docs).

View attachment 523059

Not sure why they are not simultaneously doing a clinical trial for use as a treatment for those already infected (unless it would be deemed unethical to withhold from patients in the control group?). Or maybe someone will -- given how fast they see a response (w/n a few days) they could get at least preliminary results very quickly. In the meantime, it would be nice to see a disciplined analysis of comparative data from areas that use HCQ/CQ and those that don't.

Saw this posted here yesterday and am excited to see more. Thank you for bringing valuable information to the forum. Would really think that in vivo data would be available all over the place do not know why taking so long.
 
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