Cost of Fuel Equivalent

[srs5694]

Just to add my 2c, I see several of you using power cost estimates of 20 or even 30 cents per kwh. I would say that vast majority of those who live in the USA do not or should not be paying that much. My rate is 10 cents. I get it that in Hawaii the rate is 35+ cents per kWh, but if you live in Hawaii you really should get solar panels installed, sign up for time of use metering, etc.

The cost of electricity varies greatly from one area to another. The EPA uses $0.13/kWh on its energy efficiency web site for computing the cost of driving an EV, and I'm pretty sure that's close to the national average. By state, the rates vary from $0.088/kWh (Oklahoma) to $0.321 (Hawaii), according to this site. (I'm a little suspicious of those figures, though; I live in Rhode Island, which they specify has a rate of $0.227, but the base rate in my area from the biggest utility here is more like $0.18. Perhaps it varies from one part of the state to another, though.)

Ultimately, this means that you should check your own electric bill to figure out the rate you're paying. (The way I'm billed, that means adding up a bunch of smaller figures, since they don't do that for you -- instead, they charge $0.02 for fee X, $0.04 for fee Y, etc.) For many people, that will add up to $0.20/kWh or so. California's at $0.183, according to the above-mentioned site; and of course California is Telsa's #1 market in the US. OTOH, time-of-use metering seems to be popular in California, and that can help bring costs way down for driving an EV. For that matter, the site's list of the ten most-expensive electricity states includes many places where I'd expect EVs to be popular, and the ten least-expensive states are ones where I'd expect EVs to be less popular. If my expectations are reasonable, that will shift the cost of electricity to the high end for EV owners, compared to the national average.

One more point: When considering lifetime costs of driving a car, factoring in plausible changes in fuel prices is fair. Like everything else, the cost of electricity is more likely to go up over the next few years than it is to go down. The same is true of gasoline, of course.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Just to add my 2c, I see several of you using power cost estimates of 20 or even 30 cents per kwh. I would say that vast majority of those who live in the USA do not or should not be paying that much. My rate is 10 cents. I get it that in Hawaii the rate is 35+ cents per kWh, but if you live in Hawaii you really should get solar panels installed, sign up for time of use metering, etc.

I just spend a couple of weeks on Oahu, and I was talking to a guy who could not afford to pay for solar upfront, so he signed a solar lease and is paying 15 cents. I get it that there are those who rent, live in an apartment, etc. But those who rent, AND live in the area with very high electric rates only represent a small percentage of Tesla owners. And some of them should still be able to get time of use metering.

Definitely have to get the electricity cost down to have it make economic sense, from a cost-per-mile perspective. The OP’s stated current rate makes his situation roughly on par with driving a gasoline vehicle, when counting only energy costs. Obviously there are other significant factors to consider as well, but from a narrowly focused energy cost perspective, it is like driving a 33mpg vehicle for him (assuming he does not use the heat in the winter, which might take it down to 25-30mpg equivalent cost). As he said, he’s going to look into getting his rate down via an EV TOU plan.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Me too, but both times I have visited, I left after about 10 minutes because I couldn’t stand waiting for the car to charge.

I only charge $14 per hour to babysit Tesla's at superchargers. I'll do it for you.

 

[chronopc]

I used Fuelly to track my fuel ups in my previous car, a 2008 Infiniti G35. Lifetime stats for that car:

Avg MPG: 17.6
Avg Price/Gallons: $3.54 (CA premium)
Avg Price/Fuel-up: $53.18
Avg Price/Mile: $0.200

With my Model 3, this cost goes to $0 because of free charging at my work.

Man your 2008 Infiniti did not get good fuel economy.

 

[BE_M3]

Charging my M3 here in California puts me in tier 3 PG&E cost bracket which is 0.27 cents KW/h.If I go on the TOU plan, the cost is lower during 11:00pm and 7:00am but increases during the day time hours so it makes it a wash. I figure I'm geting about 40-60 ICE MPG depending if I'm driving during the day or night. Not what I was expecting when I bought the car, but do enjoy driving it more than my ICE truck

 

[GenSao]

Charging my M3 here in California puts me in tier 3 PG&E cost bracket which is 0.27 cents KW/h.If I go on the TOU plan, the cost is lower during 11:00pm and 7:00am but increases during the day time hours so it makes it a wash. I figure I'm geting about 40-60 ICE MPG depending if I'm driving during the day or night. Not what I was expecting when I bought the car, but do enjoy driving it more than my ICE truck

You should come out ahead if you switch to PG&E's EV-A TOU rate plan. Switch more of your electricity (electric cloths dryer, ev charging, and others.) to off peak times. The $0.12559 (summer) and $0.12866 (winter) off peak rates are much better than the current E-1 step rates: 1) 0%-100% of Baseline @ $0.21775, 2) 101%-400% of Baseline @ $0.27402, and 3) Over 400% of Baseline @ $0.48009.

Also, take advantage of the $800 PG&E EV rebate.

 

[SageBrush]

Charging my M3 here in California puts me in tier 3 PG&E cost bracket which is 0.27 cents KW/h.If I go on the TOU plan, the cost is lower during 11:00pm and 7:00am but increases during the day time hours so it makes it a wash. I figure I'm geting about 40-60 ICE MPG depending if I'm driving during the day or night. Not what I was expecting when I bought the car, but do enjoy driving it more than my ICE truck

Look into PV (solar)

 

[voip-ninja]

Man your 2008 Infiniti did not get good fuel economy.

Infiniti G35 & G37 are major gas hogs. They have normally aspirated huge V6 engines and if you don't drive it like grandma you will pay for it at the pump, big time.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

You should come out ahead if you switch to PG&E's EV-A TOU rate plan. Switch more of your electricity (electric cloths dryer, ev charging, and others.) to off peak times. The $0.12559 (summer) and $0.12866 (winter) off peak rates are much better than the current E-1 step rates: 1) 0%-100% of Baseline @ $0.21775, 2) 101%-400% of Baseline @ $0.27402, and 3) Over 400% of Baseline @ $0.48009.

Also, take advantage of the $800 PG&E EV rebate.

Typically the problem in CA is AC use during peak hours when you go to a TOU plan, which dominates all other electricity use (EDIT: Other than charging your car...but that's at night). A large amount of solar (6-8kW) is really a good solution in California if you end up squeezed this way and the payoff can be short depending on the situation. Obviously huge savings to be had by going to all LED lighting too, but most people have already done that. The rebates are nice, and reduce the pain a lot.

 

[chronopc]

Typically the problem in CA is AC use during peak hours when you go to a TOU plan, which dominates all other electricity use. A large amount of solar (6-8kW) is really a good solution in California if you end up squeezed this way and the payoff can be short depending on the situation. Obviously huge savings to be had by going to all LED lighting too, but most people have already done that. The rebates are nice, and reduce the pain a lot.

That's why when I'm home alone and it's hot I just use the AC in the Model 3.

 

[Dana1]

Just to add my 2c, I see several of you using power cost estimates of 20 or even 30 cents per kwh. I would say that vast majority of those who live in the USA do not or should not be paying that much. My rate is 10 cents. I get it that in Hawaii the rate is 35+ cents per kWh, but if you live in Hawaii you really should get solar panels installed, sign up for time of use metering, etc.

I just spend a couple of weeks on Oahu, and I was talking to a guy who could not afford to pay for solar upfront, so he signed a solar lease and is paying 15 cents. I get it that there are those who rent, live in an apartment, etc. But those who rent, AND live in the area with very high electric rates only represent a small percentage of Tesla owners. And some of them should still be able to get time of use metering.

Hopefully he read the solar lease contract. Some of those stay with the house so if you try to sell you either have to buy out the contract or convince the new owner they want it. Some are under fire because they also don’t adjust and folks have found it more expensive than regular electricity.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Hopefully he read the solar lease contract. Some of those stay with the house so if you try to sell you either have to buy out the contract or convince the new owner they want it. Some are under fire because they also don’t adjust and folks have found it more expensive than regular electricity.

Yes, definitely just buy the solar. If you can buy a Model 3 you can afford to buy solar without a silly lease (and arguably do it first, since it provides a return on investment unlike a car). They usually make very little sense. If you’re not going to be in the house for more than 3-5 years, probably just don’t bother with it, of course. And go big if you have the roof for it.

 

[Knightshade]

Yes, definitely just buy the solar. If you can buy a Model 3 you can afford to buy solar without a silly lease (and arguably do it first, since it provides a return on investment unlike a car). They usually make very little sense. If you’re not going to be in the house for more than 3-5 years, probably just don’t bother with it, of course. And go big if you have the roof for it.

Ironically the insanely cheap rates I'm able to get from the co-op with the EV TOU plan is why we're not dropping the $ on solar... most estimates last I looked still said 10-15 years before we'd even break even on it, and while we MIGHT be here that long I doubt we'd be here a ton longer so seems a poor investment opportunity-cost wise.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Ironically the insanely cheap rates I'm able to get from the co-op with the EV TOU plan is why we're not dropping the $ on solar... most estimates last I looked still said 10-15 years before we'd even break even on it, and while we MIGHT be here that long I doubt we'd be here a ton longer so seems a poor investment opportunity-cost wise.

Yeah this was in the context of the CA person. It makes absolutely no sense for you most likely, unless you want to save the planet, of course.

 

[gilscales]

SCE TOU-B-D rate plan that is no longer available in Socal and is set to phase out soon but while I have it I am paying .12 per kWh so around 3 cents a mile, Gas here averaging $3.60 so I tell people its like 120 mpg.

 

[BE_M3]

After looking into the EV-TOU plan here in the bay area, I'm going to make the switch and change my rate plan. We will just change the way we do our domestics, washer/dryer, dishwasher, etc after 11:00 pm. PG&E allows 2 changes to the rate plan per year. so if it does not work out we can change back. After 11:00 pm to 7:00 am its 0.12 cents per KWh.

 

[SparkyB]

A question I'm asked every time I tell someone I've gone electric, is "how much does it cost vs a gas car?" Of course this isn't a simple answer, given all the variables involved. But I've honed it down to a short quick answer. "About half of what gasoline costs". The formula I use is as follows, using round #'s.
Assumptions: 1. cost of gas: $3/gal, 2. cost of Kwh: .27cents (PG&E, Marin Co, SF Bay Area), 3. miles per KwH: 4 (300 mile range on 75 KwH batt pack: M3, LR, AWD) 4. Avg mpg of gas car: 25 mpg.
Example: 250 mile trip, gas vs elec.
Electric takes 63KwH to drive 250 miles (250/4). 63 x .27 = $17
Gas car takes 10 Gal to drive 250 mi. (250/25). 10 x $3.00-$30

Now, I know there are other benefits of driving electric, but most folks look at the bottom line before anything else, so am hoping to open some minds to going electric. The other surprising number to come out of this, for me at least, is my equivalent mpg. If driving 250 miles costs me $17, that's the same as using 5.67 gallons of gas. 250 miles / 5.67 = 44 mpg. The sticker MPGe says I should get 116 MPGe. Not sure how the EPA/DOT got 116, but either my or their numbers are way off. Thx for reading. Feedback welcome.

 

[SparkyB]

You picked the wrong electric provider. I pay $0.091 per kWh. Which is more typical. So 63 kWh x $0.091 = $5.73 => 1.91 gal
Then 250 miles / 1.91 gal = 130.89 empg. Even in Hawaii I only have to pay $0.152 per kWh. $0.27 is ridiculous.

 

[GoBlue88]

For me I calculated it as way less than half back in 2014 in terms relative to the car I was giving up. When I took delivery of my Model S 5 years ago, the vehicle I was giving up was a 2010 Lexus IS 350. That car at the time could go an average of about 23 miles on a gallon of gas, and required premium gas. The cost of a gallon of premium gas at the time was about $4.00. As such, the simple calculation was that I was paying $4 to travel 23 miles. To drive the Lexus 265 miles (the rated miles capacity of my new S85) the cost would therefore be 4*(265/23) = $46.09.

Translating that to how much electricity it cost me to put 265 miles/85 kWh on the battery of my car while charging only between the hours of midnight and 5am (lowest SDGE prices on EV-TOU2 in 2014), with rounding was about $0.12/kWh. This translates to 85*0.12 = $10.20 to go 265 miles. I didn't include the base SDGE fees, because I pay those to power my house regardless of what vehicle I'm driving.

So, the cost ratio to drive 265 miles is 10.20/46.09 = 22.13%. Translating that to the cost of a gallon of gas in San Diego at the time, we have $4 x .2213 = $0.89. As such, whenever someone asks me this question, I would just tell them "the equivalent of about $0.89/gallon".

Obviously this is a very simplified calculation with a few variables ignored that works only for comparison to a 23 mpg car and a gas cost of $4/gallon, and higher efficiency gas cars and/or lower prices of gas would result in a different calculation. However I think "the equivalent of about $0.89/gallon" gets the point across effectively enough in terms that the average person can understand.

 

[gilscales]

You picked the wrong electric provider. I pay $0.091 per kWh. Which is more typical. So 63 kWh x $0.091 = $5.73 => 1.91 gal
Then 250 miles / 1.91 gal = 130.89 empg. Even in Hawaii I only have to pay $0.152 per kWh. $0.27 is ridiculous.

Well it all depends on where you live, I have a TOU plan here is Southern, CA that is $0.12 to $0.13 starting at 10 pm to 8 am but SCE is changing the rate plan and by fall of next year my rate is going up, My brother has PG&E in Northern, CA and his cheapest rate is $0.22 still I have read of people having deals where it is under $0.02 or even free during certain hours.