FTFY:
PG&E
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CPUC NEM 3.0 discussion
- Thread starter jjrandorin
- Start date
FTFY:
PG&E
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
.... it's $6/therm in Europe. A lot of people still addicted to natural gas are in for a rude awakening as it goes from a waste product from fracking in the US to more of a commodity. The price has been artificially low in the US for over 10 years now and the party is slowing winding down....
RIP Europeans and Asians who have gas furnaces. Something Something chip shortage and the economy is doing great.
Edit, this house has three fireplaces... looks like I need to get these things working again and burn some wood for heat to keep this party rockin'
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
One of the first things I did when I bought my house ~9 years ago was replace my POS gas furnace, water heater, stove and disconnect the gas service. Heat pumps are awesome and they're even better today than they were then
Wood stoves are a great alternative when it's ~10F outside and the heat pumps are closer to ~200% efficient vs their normal 400% or the power is out.
One of the first things I did when I bought my house ~9 years ago was replace my POS gas furnace, water heater, stove and disconnect the gas service. Heat pumps are awesome and they're even better today than they were then
Wood stoves are a great alternative when it's ~10F outside and the heat pumps are closer to ~200% efficient vs their normal 400% or the power is out.
Wow it seems burning wood to keep this house warm is like way more efficient (in terms of dollars) than using NG. But this funny little chart makes it seem like wood burning is bad for the environment. But as long as I'm not paying PG&E amirite?? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Don't convert your wood fireplaces to gas inserts ya'll.
Wood vs Natural Gas Cost Comparison - Energy Forums
What is the wood vs natural gas cost comparison for heating? Find out in this article. Calculations are shown so you can tailor it to your situation.
energyforums.net
No. Most fireplaces are very inefficient in terms of heat into the room vs heat up the chimney (and some are negative).
More importantly, burning wood kills people. So does burning coal, and probably burning gas, and nuclear power, and so forth. But burning wood produces a lot of more pollution than burning natural gas. Especially if you don't have an EPA-certified stove or insert that reburns the smoke.
Cheers, Wayne
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
Wow it seems burning wood to keep this house warm is like way more efficient (in terms of dollars) than using NG. But this funny little chart makes it seem like wood burning is bad for the environment. But as long as I'm not paying PG&E amirite?? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Don't convert your wood fireplaces to gas inserts ya'll.
Wood vs Natural Gas Cost Comparison - Energy Forums
What is the wood vs natural gas cost comparison for heating? Find out in this article. Calculations are shown so you can tailor it to your situation.
View attachment 746745
Only when it's <10F and the heat pumps are struggling. How often does that happen?
Seems like PG&E should be figuring out a cost effective way to lower the cost of NG so we don't get incentivized to burn wood in the coming years?
Or someone invents an incentive to get people to convert the millions of NG appliances in California to Electric. This option isn't affordable to typical homeowners today who don't wear solar panels on their suspenders.
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
Supply and demand. The best way to lower the cost of NG is for those that can afford to stop using by converting to electric to do so. Rebates would help too. FAR more feasible to offer incentives for heat pumps than to find a way to cheat the laws of economics. I bought a friend an induction stove to stop them from making the mistake of installing a gas line at their new house. Which is the other low hanging fruit. New gas connections should have been banned ~10 years ago south of the 20th parallel when heat pumps became viable down to -20F.
I have a free-standing wood stove that reburns the smoke after it gets to a high enough temp. Puts out a lot of heat. Was thinking about replacing with NG stove, but rethinking that now
skepticcyclist
Member
Ooooo yeah that catalyst technology reduces emissions to 2 grams per hour. Man, I'm going to get one of these retrofit in the fireplace before I pay PG&E $500 a month for NG in 2027...
So if we try to duck NEM 3.0 fixed cost fees by converting PV+ESS to non exporting ... and go further "off grid" with some wood fireplaces ... we will be on a fast track to energy independence. Just need to add some windmills in my back yard. Maybe get a propane stove.
that diagram pretty much explains mine. Mine is a Vermont Castings Defiant Encore. You get the fire going to above 400 degrees and then shut the main baffle. This pushes the combusted air into a secondary chamber where the catalyst is and reburns it. My house is 3 levels (going down a hill). The 3rd level down is about 1/3 the footprint of the 1st and 2nd levels. My office is there along with an area for "wine" entertaining. It has 1 vent from the heat pump which heats the 2nd level. I just close the vent and light the wood stove. It gets toasty
Here is mine for my last billing period, before we started needing to heat the house. I have 2 heater units (and 2 AC units), one for upstairs and one for downstairs. I keep the one for the part of the house we are in set to 70, and the other one set to like 64 (so heat doesnt come on upstairs when we are downstairs all day, etc), and vis versa when we go to bed as the main bedroom is upstairs.
Whoaaaa you can even get a variable speed blower to help move air through the house. Like the wood insert looks like something that makes more sense than watching my PG&E bill moon-shot in the wintertime. This is like... better than a minisplit hehe.
@jjrandorin is going to be like "why the #*!O#@ are you guys talking about a fireplace in a NEM thread?"
The answer is the latest NEM proposal sucks. CPUC sucks. PG&E sucks. Any way to try and further defect from the grid (both gas and electric) is at the heart of why this NEM issue is so contentious. The utilities want us all to pay to use energy, but at a certain inflection point, burning wood and coal is an easier option to live with than living with PG&E. 2050 is going to be like we've gone back to the 1850's to get away from this monopoly-grid.
All kidding aside, I do feel that discussions around ways to reduce dependence on the utility is at least partially on topic for "NEM 3.0" so unless it goes waaaaay off the deep end, I have no plans to move that stuff out of this thread
charlesj
Active Member
charlesj
Active Member
When was this bill? My most recent bill to 31 Oct
tier 1 $1.88139 per therm
tier 2 $2.36363 per therm
and from 1 Nov to 16 Nov I had tier 1 at $2.01237
with total of 21 therms.
Radiant heat is on right now and have lots of Tylenol on hand for next bill.
When was this bill? My most recent bill to 31 Oct
tier 1 $1.88139 per therm
tier 2 $2.36363 per therm
and from 1 Nov to 16 Nov I had tier 1 at $2.01237
with total of 21 therms.
Radiant heat is on right now and have lots of Tylenol on hand for next bill.
My mother in law has the downstairs furnace set to 74F and a space heater going. My next bill is going to require Tylenol and a HELOC.
I can see why old people typically want to move to Arizona to retire...
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