I know my Model 3 only maintains a charge rate of 250kW for a couple of minutes, even when starting at 5 or 6 percent of charge, while my friend's new Model S will maintain 250kW for over 5 minutes.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Cybertruck will be 800V
- Thread starter JulienW
- Start date
One more note. Per usual, Tesla's early update on their website is flawed. What you show is from the specs at the end where it does say, "Up to 128 miles added in 15 minutes", but earlier on the same webpage, it says, "Up to 136 miles added in 15 minutes." That's not a big difference, but it's indicative that there will be some corrections to the listed specs. Here's the screen capture from earlier on the page.
It doesn't matter for the voltage/amperage of the charger or what the Cybertruck pack voltage is. 250KW is 400V/560 amps no matter how long the time and this is what the V3 Superchargers can deliver.
If the CT is a 800V architecture (a typo or only a future upgrade) hopefully Tesla will start deploying (and replace) V4's with a "true V4 800V cabinets in the V4 Superchargers.
A littler OT but one of the worst "reveal events" ever and sooooooo laking in substance and technical info (not even the price was mentioned). If it wasn't for the films and slides there would have been almost no useful info at all. Elon just wings it and seems to have been thinking more about "My Space" advertisers than the Cybetruck.
Last edited:
Yea, this could be the bottleneck. The 4680 have been a huge disappointment and a VERY slow development. Could be we will have to wait on V3 of the 4680's before Tesla switches to 800V or at least they need much more testing of V2's.
EDIT: Just to add the latest info is that even the upcoming V3 4680's will still not have the dry method for the Cathode but a hybrid wet/dry process. Hope that can finely get the energy density and C ratings up well past 2170's.
The truck is already 800 volt with the current 4680 batteries. That's what the batteries and motors operate at. There are a few different ways of having a 400 volt charger work with an 800 volt battery pack. I'm hopeful that when Tesla gets the V4 Superchargers up to 800 volts, that the Cybertruck will be able to charge faster, maybe as high as 500 kW. That said, if it could just accept a full 250kW for 15 minutes or so, that would be excellent in real world usage. I'll be surprised if it's capable of this, but we don't know yet.
I agree. It seems they were trying to ignore the dramatic price increase and the lack of a 500 mile version of the Cybertruck, and it would have been a lot more interesting presentation if they had actually gone into a bit of detail about the truck's features. Elon could have just handed off that part of the presentation to one of the other execs.
The primary advantages of the dry cathode method are lowered cost of production and less factory space required. That makes it a worthy technology to pursue, but it's obviously turning out to be more difficult to put into production that Tesla had hoped/expected. From an end user perspective, the production method doesn't really matter other than the impact it has on the cost of the vehicle.
The tabless tech in the 4680 batteries should allow for higher C ratings, and the larger form factor should result in a slightly higher energy density for the pack. We don't know where Tesla is really at with this, but it's obviously not significantly better than the 2170s at present, if it's better at all.
israndy
Supercharger Hunter
Why does everyone keep saying When Superchargers Can Do 800V? If you want 800V just hit up EA or EVgo already. 350kW available every day
That wouldn't work with the Cybertruck because it has an NACS rather than CCS connector. Are there any EA or EVgo chargers out there with an NACS connector? There's a CCS to NACS adapter available, but the specs show it maxing out at 250kW, and I have no idea if it would support 800V or not.
israndy
Supercharger Hunter
You must be new to Tesla. Prior delivery events were the same.
Y’all… 136 miles out of 340 is 40%. Adding 40% in 15 minutes is not indicative of a great charging curve or c-rate. Pretty much every other battery type Tesla offers adds 50% in 15 minutes. Heck, even my Model 3 RWD standard range adds 50% or 136 miles in 15 minutes, and it’s one of the slowest charging Tesla models.
When calculating gas savings, the Tesla website uses 42.9 kWh / 100 miles for the Cybertruck AWD, meaning that’s how much power it pulls from the wall to go 100 miles. Multiply by ~88.8% to account for charging losses (that’s the factor used for Model 3 on their website), and then by 340 rated miles, and we can guess that the Cybertruck AWD has a roughly 129.5 kWh battery. Multiply by 95.5% to get a usable capacity of 123.7 kWh. Multiply that by 40% and we can estimate that the Cybertruck added 49.5 kWh in 15 minutes, meaning average charging power was 198 kW. If peak is 250 kW, that means it might have already slowed down to around 146 kW after only 15 minutes, assuming a fairly linear drop. Ain’t no flat 250 kW charging curve happening here.
I believe Model S can add about the same kWh in 15 minutes as Cybertruck despite having a much smaller battery, which means the c-rate of the Cybertruck battery is disappointing. A bigger battery usually means you can add more kWh in the same amount of time, but not here.
800v architecture doesn’t mean a whole lot in terms of charging speed if your battery is limited by c-rate. Bjorn talks about that in detail in his latest rant on YouTube if anyone is interested.
When calculating gas savings, the Tesla website uses 42.9 kWh / 100 miles for the Cybertruck AWD, meaning that’s how much power it pulls from the wall to go 100 miles. Multiply by ~88.8% to account for charging losses (that’s the factor used for Model 3 on their website), and then by 340 rated miles, and we can guess that the Cybertruck AWD has a roughly 129.5 kWh battery. Multiply by 95.5% to get a usable capacity of 123.7 kWh. Multiply that by 40% and we can estimate that the Cybertruck added 49.5 kWh in 15 minutes, meaning average charging power was 198 kW. If peak is 250 kW, that means it might have already slowed down to around 146 kW after only 15 minutes, assuming a fairly linear drop. Ain’t no flat 250 kW charging curve happening here.
I believe Model S can add about the same kWh in 15 minutes as Cybertruck despite having a much smaller battery, which means the c-rate of the Cybertruck battery is disappointing. A bigger battery usually means you can add more kWh in the same amount of time, but not here.
800v architecture doesn’t mean a whole lot in terms of charging speed if your battery is limited by c-rate. Bjorn talks about that in detail in his latest rant on YouTube if anyone is interested.
Last edited:
Lars confirms (at 33:40) it is 350KW charging so the web site is a typo/wrong on stating the charging speed/voltage of 250KW Max/400V.
Also a good info packed Top Gear drive/mini review and interview with Franz and Lars.
Also a good info packed Top Gear drive/mini review and interview with Franz and Lars.
Tam
Well-Known Member
The talks on YouTube are not official.
I think there's a reason why the official records have a typo/wrong 250kW.
400V 250kW V4 stations are coming right now but it might indicate that the 1000V 350kW V4 will not be in a hurry to appear soon.
The interview on the Top Gear Youtube spot linked above is about as official as you can get from Tesla. It was with the VP of Vehicle Engineering Lars Moravy and the Chief Designer Franz Holzhausen. The only person that can overrule them is Elon, and he isn't as directly in touch with the details as they are.
Lars does say that the Cybertruck will have 350kW Supercharging when they get the V4 Superchargers working at that rate. They obviously have some more work to do in that direction. I think we'll start seeing V4s operating at 350kW within the next year to year and a half due to both the Cybertruck and a number of other manufacturers joining the NACS who can take advantage of it. Tesla really needs to have the Supercharging optimized as much as possible when they start getting the influx of other manufacturers vehicles charging on the network.
Lars, in the Top Gear interview, said that on V4 Superchargers operating at 350kW, that the Cybertruck would charge from 15% to 85% in 18 to 20 minutes. The usable battery pack is apparently 123kW, so if we take 70% of that, 86.1kW, the 18 to 20 minutes works out to an average charge rate of between 258 and 287 kW per hour for the entire charging session from 15% to 85%. If it really works out like that in real life, it will be outstanding, and I think faster than any other EV to date.
israndy
Supercharger Hunter
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
That’s the big sticking point. Certainly seems like this pack should have no problem supporting 350kW, and hopefully 4680s don’t cause unexpected problems.
But the big sticking point is those chargers. At the current glacial rate of expansion, it could be years before practical high speed charging is available everywhere. It’s already bad enough getting stuck with V2 in a Model 3 (absolutely awful having to shuffle stalls and avoid other people, and wait for charging to start for 30 seconds, etc.). Why do v2 still exist???
Now we have Superchargers that don’t easily fit Cybertrucks (does the cable always reach if you’re not perfectly parked or blocked from getting the right position?), and they’re all really slow (250kW no good).
So things have to change really quickly! Hopefully Tesla can step it up! They have to, with this small pack size. It seems V4 should probably roll out widely to more remote locations FIRST.
Last edited:
Similar threads
