Deliveries of $80k X?

[Milan Djabirov]

They have never lied, they just follow the procedures that the EPA provides. The EPA changed the testing procedures for model year 2024 vehicles...

My post was supposed to be joke, but if we make this serious, and perhaps we should, are you saying they never lied because the EPA approved of their number - like they actually managed to game the range by not violating the EPA guidelines under some never documented and unrealistic conditions and the EPA rubberstamped it - hence they never lied?

In my book they still lied. But you can disagree on that of course.

 

[BarryL]

My post was supposed to be joke, but if we make this serious, and perhaps we should, are you saying they never lied because the EPA approved of their number - like they actually managed to game the range by not violating the EPA guidelines under some never documented and unrealistic conditions and the EPA rubberstamped it - hence they never lied?

In my book they still lied. But you can disagree on that of course.

Of course they lied. Why is it that real world use is not even close to Tesla’s EPA numbers? The Germans lied and overdeliver on range. In America our manufacturers lie until they’re proven wrong.

No way a 2018 Performance 3 with 20” wheels was getting 310mi. More like 210

 

[Milan Djabirov]

I once tried to range test my M3P with 97% battery health and 18 inch FastEV01 aero wheels, temperature in the 60s, HVAC off, in mixed driving mostly 30-60mph, very light on the pedal and coasting/regening as much as I can on relatively flat routes, to see how much I can squeeze range-wise. Did not get to 0 and charged at single digits, but by the computer estimate would have hit 0 at about 285 miles. Let's assume you can milk another 20 miles somehow past 0 till the battery actually dies. No way this is 315 and no way it would have been even 300 especially with the 20 inch and summer stock tires. And with HVAC on forget it. All models - the range is a fat lie. And if the EPA approves, it still is.

 

[ChiefRollo]

Of course they lied. Why is it that real world use is not even close to Tesla’s EPA numbers? The Germans lied and overdeliver on range. In America our manufacturers lie until they’re proven wrong.

No way a 2018 Performance 3 with 20” wheels was getting 310mi. More like 210

I'm sure you owned many ICE vehicles previously including high performance ones. Can you share your past reflection on one's fuel efficiency and its deviations from EPA estimates per your driving style?

 

[ChiefRollo]

Of course they lied. Why is it that real world use is not even close to Tesla’s EPA numbers? The Germans lied and overdeliver on range. In America our manufacturers lie until they’re proven wrong.

No way a 2018 Performance 3 with 20” wheels was getting 310mi. More like 210

Perhaps your declaration that they lied reflects your investigations into all fuel efficiency & mileage range claims of ICE and EV vehicles from various manufacturers versus real world use. If so, kudos to you for your effort and willingness to share; you should take a step further with your data and start a class action lawsuit as you caught Tesla red-handed. If not, STFU.

 

[MP3Mike]

My post was supposed to be joke, but if we make this serious, and perhaps we should, are you saying they never lied because the EPA approved of their number - like they actually managed to game the range by not violating the EPA guidelines under some never documented and unrealistic conditions and the EPA rubberstamped it - hence they never lied?

In my book they still lied. But you can disagree on that of course.

Nope. In fact, at least one of the ratings for the Model S was done completely by the EPA themselves. (Tesla made them re-do the testing because they screwed up the testing, causing the number to be lower than it should be.)

Tesla is just using the well documented EPA testing procedures:

Every original equipment manufacturer (OEM) is required to run at least 2-cycle to certify range for EVs in North America, but the drive cycles under consideration in 2-cycle tests are low-speed tests that aren’t truly representative of the real world. This forces the EPA to use an adjustment factor to yield a more realistic customer that experiences range. The default adjustment factor is 0.7, which reduces the raw range by 30% when an OEM opts to certify the range with just a 2-cycle methodology. For example, a car that achieves 500 miles of range during a 2-cycle test ends up with a 350-mile label range by using the default adjustment factor. However, the EPA allows manufacturers the option to run three additional drive cycles (US06, SCO3, and FTP cold drive cycle) and use those results to earn a more favorable adjustment factor. The adjustment factor can never be less than 0.7, in the case that the estimated adjustment factor from the 5-cycle test is less than 0.7 then a default adjustment factor of 0.7 can be applied.

More information here: Calculating Electric Vehicle Range with Simulation

 

[Milan Djabirov]

Perhaps your declaration that they lied reflects your investigations into all fuel efficiency & mileage range claims of ICE and EV vehicles from various manufacturers versus real world use. If so, kudos to you for your effort and willingness to share; you should take a step further with your data and start a class action lawsuit as you caught Tesla red-handed. If not, STFU.

I don't mean to pick a forum fight. But they call this what-about-ism. Yeah they lied too. We really digress though, but I can tell you of other instances where Tesla lies (like they lie on their own webpage on the vehicle price and think somehow putting an asterisk that it includes "potential gas savings" makes it better). But this is a model X delivery forum, I just thought I'd crack a joke regarding the "new 2024 ranges". If you really think it is the EPA that lied here, then Tesla just put a lie on their own page so technically they only lied by association with a lie .

 

[Masakakyo]

Anyone in the same situation?

I just received a call from the delivery advisor, asking if I'm willing to cancel my scheduled Saturday delivery because Tesla can't currently deliver car with the tax credit. They're still working with the IRS to sort it out. If I don't mind skipping the tax credit, I can pick up the car right away; it's already at the service center. However, if I want the tax credit, I'll need to wait until further notice.

Got some updates on point of sale tax credit. Called delivery center today, was told they receive the confirmation from the company that the POS tax credit won't be available for Model X, you will need to file your own tax like in 2023. He told me nothing will change if I wait for another week.

Again, not sure how reliable his words are. Maybe call your delivery center just in case?

 

[Szzz]

Got some updates on point of sale tax credit. Called delivery center today, was told they receive the confirmation from the company that the POS tax credit won't be available for Model X, you will need to file your own tax like in 2023. He told me nothing will change if I wait for another week.

Again, not sure how reliable his words are. Maybe call your delivery center just in case?

Very important information! Thank you. May I ask which state are you at? I am going to call them shortly.

Also what’s your plan? Picking it up this weekend?

 

[TANGO SUKKA]

Got some updates on point of sale tax credit. Called delivery center today, was told they receive the confirmation from the company that the POS tax credit won't be available for Model X, you will need to file your own tax like in 2023. He told me nothing will change if I wait for another week.

Again, not sure how reliable his words are. Maybe call your delivery center just in case?

nice, glad i bought in december instead of january.

 

[ocdbape]

Got some updates on point of sale tax credit. Called delivery center today, was told they receive the confirmation from the company that the POS tax credit won't be available for Model X, you will need to file your own tax like in 2023. He told me nothing will change if I wait for another week.

Again, not sure how reliable his words are. Maybe call your delivery center just in case?

Every delivery center said different things. Keep waiting would be your best bet

 

[Masakakyo]

Very important information! Thank you. May I ask which state are you at? I am going to call them shortly.

Also what’s your plan? Picking it up this weekend?

I'm in SoCal, pick up location is Upland, CA.

Not sure what I'm gonna do yet, if this is the "official" answer from Tesla, I'd pick up ASAP. Just don't know if I should trust what the delivery center person says.

 

[Masakakyo]

Every delivery center said different things. Keep waiting would be your best bet

Thanks for the advice. That's what I'm going to do.

 

[SunnySideUp]

for all of the folks who decided to wait or cancel orders back in November for a "2024" vin..........Y'all hanging in there ok ? Trust me i'm just as shocked to still see 2023's pumping out like no tomorrow and to add sugar on top, no POS credit. Someone wake Elon up and tell him its 2024!

 

[mathnerd88]

I don't mean to pick a forum fight. But they call this what-about-ism. Yeah they lied too. We really digress though, but I can tell you of other instances where Tesla lies (like they lie on their own webpage on the vehicle price and think somehow putting an asterisk that it includes "potential gas savings" makes it better). But this is a model X delivery forum, I just thought I'd crack a joke regarding the "new 2024 ranges". If you really think it is the EPA that lied here, then Tesla just put a lie on their own page so technically they only lied by association with a lie .

Not only Tesla does that with the "potential gas savings," but they fail to disclose that insurance rates for these are absolutely bonkers, basically negating the potential gas savings with any other similarly priced ICE vehicle...lol.

Tesla does only disclose things to their benefit. That's every company, but Tesla does so on their site worse than other EV manufacturers.

 

[Szzz]

I'm in SoCal, pick up location is Upland, CA.

Not sure what I'm gonna do yet, if this is the "official" answer from Tesla, I'd pick up ASAP. Just don't know if I should trust what the delivery center person says.

I just messaged my delivery center. I’ll keep you posted. I am in Irvine, SoCal.

 

[csrpenfab]

Not only Tesla does that with the "potential gas savings," but they fail to disclose that insurance rates for these are absolutely bonkers, basically negating the potential gas savings with any other similarly priced ICE vehicle...lol.

Tesla does only disclose things to their benefit. That's every company, but Tesla does so on their site worse than other EV manufacturers.

Insurance on the Tesla really depends on where you live. I went from a 15 year old BMW 535 to a 2022 MYP and my rates went down. I'm now waiting on a MX and my insurance quote to replace the MYP was only $150 higher for 6 months. Not bad at all.

 

[mathnerd88]

Insurance on the Tesla really depends on where you live. I went from a 15 year old BMW 535 to a 2022 MYP and my rates went down. I'm now waiting on a MX and my insurance quote to replace the MYP was only $150 higher for 6 months. Not bad at all.

I'm comparing the cost of insuring my 2023 Model X to my 2022 Acura MDX SH-AWD Advance. The price difference was pretty massive- it costs about 3 times more to insure my Model X than the Acura MDX. In fact, my 2022 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xe and Acura MDX (both $65k vehicles) costs less combined to just insure one 2023 Model X.

Don't compare just upgrading from MYP to MX, like compare it to a similarly priced ICE vehicle. I don't believe that your rates went down insuring a 15 year old BMW to a 2022 MYP. That is unheard of, and it doesn't make sense. Plus, a vehicle that's 15 years old should only be liability coverage at that point, since that BMW is basically worthless.

Travelers cost me $330 per month for all three vehicles. Before my Model X, I was only paying $150 per month for both vehicles (Jeep and Acura.) This is also on the cheaper side for me. Tesla insurance wanted $500 a month for all three vehicles insured with worse coverage than Travelers. Geico's premium was similar to Tesla Insurance.

 

[Szzz]

I'm in SoCal, pick up location is Upland, CA.

Not sure what I'm gonna do yet, if this is the "official" answer from Tesla, I'd pick up ASAP. Just don't know if I should trust what the delivery center person says.

My delivery advisor said they didn’t hear anything. He recommended me wait at least until mid next week. I pushed my appointment to next Saturday afternoon for now.

 

[towndrunk]

I'm comparing the cost of insuring my 2023 Model X to my 2022 Acura MDX SH-AWD Advance. The price difference was pretty massive- it costs about 3 times more to insure my Model X than the Acura MDX. In fact, my 2022 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xe and Acura MDX (both $65k vehicles) costs less combined to just insure one 2023 Model X.

Don't compare just upgrading from MYP to MX, like compare it to a similarly priced ICE vehicle. I don't believe that your rates went down insuring a 15 year old BMW to a 2022 MYP. That is unheard of, and it doesn't make sense. Plus, a vehicle that's 15 years old should only be liability coverage at that point, since that BMW is basically worthless.

Travelers cost me $330 per month for all three vehicles. Before my Model X, I was only paying $150 per month for both vehicles (Jeep and Acura.) This is also on the cheaper side for me. Tesla insurance wanted $500 a month for all three vehicles insured with worse coverage than Travelers. Geico's premium was similar to Tesla Insurance.

My '23 Plaid will be $12 cheaper than my '22 PY with the same options. This is what Progressive quoted me online when I used a '23 Plaid VIN I found online. FWIW, I'm 70 y.o. and a clean record.