Discussion: Hertz orders 100,000 Model 3's

[CapeOne]

Which ones are they available at right now to rent, say, tomorrow, specifically?

M3s have been available at select Hertz locations, including dual motor models. Once again, specific details of the recently announced 100k unit deal as far when it was finalized, which and how many cars are to be allocated to which countries, etc. has not been made public to my knowledge. Will they all be white SR+ models? Will some countries get SR+ and AWD models? Will some countries only get AWD? Will there be varying colors?

 

[Knightshade]

M3s have been available at select Hertz locations, including dual motor models.

Then I guess the fact that Hertz only posted SR specs on the website about the new Tesla deal is even more evidence they only ordered SRs.

Thanks for once again confirming the facts you insist on denying

 

[TexasTezla]

All we have to do is wait a while...patience is a virtue!

 

[CapeOne]

Then I guess the fact that Hertz only posted SR specs on the website about the new Tesla deal is even more evidence they only ordered SRs.

Thanks for once again confirming the facts you insist on denying

I'm not "denying" anything, I've been saying various things are still vague or unknown.

Where in the Hertz press release regarding this deal does it say that ALL cars being delivered to ALL countries through end of 2022 will be white SR+ models? It certainly doesn’t state how many cars are being allocated to which countries and therefore it's impossible to conclude that "math announced confirms they're all SRs at full price" (as you stated earlier) especially if we don't know when the deal was closed/finalized.

However, if you still believe it is confirmed, I would be very interested in seeing the math. You seem very confident about your statement, so I assume it will be easy for you show the numbers.

To do this math, you would need to at least know: 1) When the deal was closed/finalized in order to have an overall reference point regarding retail prices. 2) The exact total purchase price of all of the cars. 3) The models, options and colors of all vehicles to be included in the deal. 4) How many cars (and potentially the specs, if not all the same) are going to which countries, to have a reference point regarding retail prices by country.

I look forward to your figures! If you can't provide those details and figures, I don't see how you can claim anything is "confirmed."

 

[Knightshade]

I'm not "denying" anything, I've been saying various things are still vague or unknown.

Yes but there keeps being lots of evidence it IS known, and none that it isn't.


First your story was the reason the specs are ONLY SR on the site was maybe they meant the ones they offered TODAY- not the ones in the deal.

When asked to show examples of any being available TODAY you posted a link to.... non srs

Which only reinforces the fact the page with the SR specs is specifically about the new 100k car order.

They ONLY list one spec there. The SR.

Which is what all 100k cars are gonna be.

Further reinforced by the CEO telling you they sold at full retail price.

Which if you use the retail price from a couple weeks ago means... 100k cars all SRs.

And the actual amount announced matches that math.


But you keep insisting we "don't know"


Yeah. We really do.

However, if you still believe it is confirmed, I would be very interested in seeing the math.

4.2 billion across 100k cars is $42000 per car.

As of a couple weeks ago (before a VERY recent price bump) the SR was $41,990.


Which times 100k cars is 4.199 billion. I expect they just rounded to 4.2 for the press release.


This really isn't rocket surgery.



Every objection you raise requires Elon to have just outright lied publicly about the price Hertz was charged.

AND for Hertz to have gone along with that lie.

AND for Hertz to have somehow only posted SR specs related to the deal even though they somehow magically got non-SR cars in your imagination

AND for Uber to have worked out a flat rate for their drivers even though there's somehow multiple configs in your imagination that ought have multiple prices.


You'd need all of those incredibly hard to believe and for which you have no evidence things to be true for your story to begin to make any sense.



Or, you just accept they're all SRs because literally every available piece of info from both Tesla, Hertz, and Uber say they are.

 

[Pianewman]

Please...stop. Enough.

 

[texas_star_TM3]

any concerns among white Tesla SR+ owners about resell value when carvana starts dumping the first batch of used rentals on the market?
"white Tesla SR+ with high mileage" might become the synonym for "ex rental car".

 

[dmurphy]

any concerns among white Tesla SR+ owners about resell value when carvana starts dumping the first batch of used rentals on the market?
"white Tesla SR+ with high mileage" might become the synonym for "ex rental car".

The key difference is (and I don't know how the market will price this ...)

is that "Drive it like ya stole it" is a bad thing for ICE cars ... with EVs, that's called "every day".

I'm hoping the used car market accounts for that... but I doubt it.

For me, I've got a white LR that I plan to HODL and hand off to my kid when he starts driving ... that's going to be our 300k+ mile car.

 

[CapeOne]

4.2 billion across 100k cars is $42000 per car.

As of a couple weeks ago (before a VERY recent price bump) the SR was $41,990.


Which times 100k cars is 4.199 billion. I expect they just rounded to 4.2 for the press release.

Actually, the U.S. SR+ starting retail price before Friday’s latest increase was $43,190 which would put the retail value of 100k units at over $4.3 billion which is above the $4.2 billion announced figure. If that's the math/logic you are using, it would show that they were sold at a discount. Interesting.

However, not all cars are even for the U.S. so as I’ve been saying all along, many things are vague or unknown which means the "math" doesn’t confirm anything.

 

[CapeOne]

any concerns among white Tesla SR+ owners about resell value when carvana starts dumping the first batch of used rentals on the market?
"white Tesla SR+ with high mileage" might become the synonym for "ex rental car".

Certainly a potential comcen but may depend on how many are dumped into the market at one time. If it's basically all at once, flooding the market can hurt resales. Plus, the general reputation of "ex rental cars" typically isn't great.

 

[jjrandorin]

(not moderation content.. at least not yet)

I am not sure why all the focus in this thread is on what tesla may or may not have paid for these vehicles, especially when there is a tweet from elon stating "there was no discount" that was posted.

Elon isnt the most "accurate" person when it comes to tweeting, sure, but I dont get this focus on this part of the discussion.

I am not going to "moderate it away" (at least not yet), but since none of that can be proven, and its simply going back and forth, I would "encourage" people to just agree to disagree on that part of the discussion and move on to some other discussion about this other than how much tesla was paid for these reservations.

 

[Knightshade]

Actually, the U.S. SR+ starting retail price before Friday’s latest increase was $43,190

You appear to be adding destination fees to the actual price of the car here.

Even then your math doesn't work out unless they did an entire 4+ billion dollar deal completely in a couple of weeks.

Tesla increases Model 3 and Model Y prices, cheapest car is now $42,000

Tesla has implemented a price increase across its entire Model 3 and Model Y lineup in an overnight update to...

electrek.co

That's from 3 weeks ago, October 6th.

Tesla Model 3 Standard Range Plus: price went from $39,990 to $41,990

Meaning WITH destination charges the SR was $41,190 as recently as October 5th.

So "they are all SRs" continues to be what the math tells us.

And the specs at hertz.com

And the flat fee announced by Uber.

(and the EU pricing was already addressed earlier- citing the net cost after government incentives, which to my reading Hertz would be entirely eligible for, bringing the price down to be quite similar to the non-incentive US price)



Meanwhile we're still waiting on your math where somehow that price includes LR and P models despite that not lining up with ANY of the info provided by Tesla, Hertz, or Uber.

 

[Knightshade]

The key difference is (and I don't know how the market will price this ...)

is that "Drive it like ya stole it" is a bad thing for ICE cars ... with EVs, that's called "every day".

I'm hoping the used car market accounts for that... but I doubt it.

For me, I've got a white LR that I plan to HODL and hand off to my kid when he starts driving ... that's going to be our 300k+ mile car.

Since they're going through Carvana it's unclear if they'll even explicitly be labeled as former rentals or not.

But even then, since the delivery of 100k cars will be staggered over the next ~14 months, presumably the sale of those cars in a few years will be as well.

And really, it'd amount to a fairly tiny # of cars compared to Teslas total sales by that point.

 

[CapeOne]

You appear to be adding destination fees to the actual price of the car here.


Meanwhile we're still waiting on your math where somehow that price includes LR and P models despite that not lining up with ANY of the info provided by Tesla, Hertz, or Uber.

I added the $1,200 to your $41,990 figure because it is a mandatory part of the U.S. retail price whether the car is delivered at Fremont, Chicago, Miami or wherever. The retail price of a U.S. M3 SR+ before options is currently $45,190 and was $43,190 as recently as three weeks or so ago. Your own math was based on the $41,990 (which would be $43,190 total retail) and would therefore put the retail value of 100k units at above the announced $4.2 billion. Your math also didn't address cars for countries in Europe with different retail prices.

As far as "my math" goes, I never said the order definitely includes AWD models. I've only been saying it's a possiblity. I have also been saying that various details are vague and/or missing which makes the math impossible at this point without more information. You are the one that said the announced math confirmed all cars are SR+ at full list yet the math you provided doesn't confirm anything either.

 

[CapeOne]

Since they're going through Carvana it's unclear if they'll even explicitly be labeled as former rentals or not.

Another unclear element however, rental cars are typically required to be registered or identified as rental cars and that’s how they would be labeled in Carfax (which Carvana provides its customers) or other similar history reports. Ownership labels in history reports include things like personal or corporate or rental,

 

[Knightshade]

I added the $1,200 to your $41,990 figure because it is a mandatory part of the U.S. retail price whether the car is delivered at Fremont, Chicago, Miami or wherever. The retail price of a U.S. M3 SR+ before options is currently $45,190 and was $43,190 as recently as three weeks or so ago.

And three weeks plus one day ago it was $41,190 .

Including destination.

Like you've had explained to you 6 times now.

Your math also didn't address cars for countries in Europe with different retail prices.

Yes, it did. Even citing the 3 weeks+1 day pricing in the EU, including the govt credits that would be available to buyers (hertz or anyone else) on an SR.

As far as "my math" goes, I never said the order definitely includes AWD models. I've only been saying it's a possiblity.

Without providing any math where that can possibly be true unless the CEO of one of the most valuable publicly traded companies in the world is openly engaging in fraud byt lying in a public statement about the terms of a 4.2 billion dollar transaction his company contracted for.

 

[jjrandorin]

(moderator note)

Thread on time out for a bit.

Time out over.

This time I am asking under my moderator tag to please "agree to disagree" about how much Tesla was paid for these vehicles, and move on to other discussions about this news beside that.

 

[smartypnz]

I think Tesla is going to offer new SR's (white) to anyone trading in a 'used' Tesla less than 4 years old for the 41900 price - minus the trade -in value of the trade-in. And then sell the trade-in to Hertz. Thus supplying Hertz a variety of models.at 41,900.

 

[CapeOne]

I think Tesla is going to offer new SR's (white) to anyone trading in a 'used' Tesla less than 4 years old for the 41900 price - minus the trade -in value of the trade-in. And then sell the trade-in to Hertz. Thus supplying Hertz a variety of models.at 41,900.

You're suggesting that the recently announced Hertz deal will include USED cars, or that potential future deals may include used cars?

 

[texas_star_TM3]

I think Tesla is going to offer new SR's (white) to anyone trading in a 'used' Tesla less than 4 years old for the 41900 price - minus the trade -in value of the trade-in. And then sell the trade-in to Hertz. Thus supplying Hertz a variety of models.at 41,900.

lol. ah no. unless you have *any* source that Hertz is acquiring used cars with already quite some miles on it... (which would be a first for any rental car company)