Do you regret buying (or not buying) FSD?

[ForeverEv]

I paid for EAP on my first Model 3, but honestly the only feature I really used was TACC and occasionally Lane Change. I liked both these features, though I would disable TACC sometimes in bad traffic or if it did a dangerous phantom break. As for the other features...

• NoA: I had turned it on all the time by default, but disabled it because the lane-changing suggestions were sometimes scary and/or perplexing. It was cool when it took me off the highway, but it was rare I was running it long enough/close enough to let it on the exit ramp. I eventually used this feature maybe once every 2-3 months to see if it had improved with updates.
• Parking: It never seemed to prompt when when I was trying to park, or it would show the logo when I had no idea where it was going to try to park me. I never used this feature.
• Summon: A lot of times it didn't work, and it was frustrating because I would be standing right next to the car and either it couldn't connect or the connection would drop.

Because of my experience with EAP, I chose to not pay for FSD when I got my second Model 3 (with autopilot included for "free"). I would like the automatic lane changing back, but not enough for me to drop the $6k on FSD.

The other reason I don't want to pay for FSD is because I placed my reservation on the first week of April 2016 and I still feel some kind of way about basically giving Tesla an interest-free loan, when I could have just waited and got the car in less than a year from launch at a cheaper price. I don't want to give Tesla another interest-free loan while I wait on traffic light and stop sign recognition, much less true self-driving that isn't happening anytime soon. Based on my experience with the EAP features, specifically NoA, traffic light and stop sign recognition just feels so far off to me.

 

[Dan203]

I used to agree with the above sentiment 100%, and even signed petitions to help Tesla change laws and open direct-to-consumer sales model.
But now that I had bought the car and need to have minor issues resolved with it under warranty, I wish I had paid an extra $500-$1,000 in dealer overhead, and had a competent dealer's service department to lean on for help.

I hate buying cars! Hate it!

My 2008 135i I paid full MSRP and didn't even try to negotiate. When it came to my trade I just accepted whatever they offered. It still took like 5 hours of BS to get out of there.

My 2016 340i I bought from a dealer 500 miles away on the recommendation of a forum member. I got a decent deal but it was their first offer and I just accepted it. (was still several thousand less than the local dealer offered) It still took tons of paperwork, emails and a couple phone calls to complete.

So far the Tesla has been easy. I'm hoping the delivery is fast and I'm out of there quickly. Anything that makes the buying process easier is a bonus in my book.

Service is a different animal. The local BMW dealer is hit and miss. I've had times where I went in and they were out of loaners so I had to sit there all f*cking day only to be told they couldn’t get to my car and I'd have to come back tomorrow. (I live 30m away so just getting a ride home in this situation is a problem) So the bar for service isn’t that high for me.

 

[justacarimo]

The above is largely incorrect.


Tesla originally (and by that I mean 2016 when they killed AP1 and introduced AP2) sold EAP for $5000 (and it includes all current, active, AP-related features)

They also offered FSD (promise of future features- specifically flat out Level 5 driving) for $3000 more (not 6 as you suggest)

(both prices pre-purchase, post purchase were a bit higher.)

Nothing there really changed at all for 2 years after that. $8000 all-in for everything pre-purchase, more after.


Then roughly late 2018 they kept EAP as is, but took FSD "off menu" meaning you had to specifically ask for it to get it, it was no longer an option in the online configurator, but you COULD still get it- same price even.

Then end of Feb 2019 they made the one major change to the lineup they've made at all (as opposed to the "slow removal of features" you suggest)....

EAP no longer was sold, nor was the old "we promise you level 5 FSD"...which, to remind you, cost $8000 total pre-purchase.


Instead you could buy "basic" autopilot which was just TACC and auto-steer in a single lane...for $3000... and "new" FSD, which gave you all the other existing features that used to come in EAP... plus the promise of... a MUCH more limited set of future features... specifically enhanced summon (which EAP owners will get too)... and stoplight/stopsign recognition and local drive on nav (which they won't) by end of this year... and then "more" later.

Notice this was still $8000 total, and again it cost more post-purchase than that.

They've played around with pricing a little since then...(including the ill-fated, later-admitted-mistake, of reducing FSD for late-adopters that only lasted a week or two) and eventually they just made "basic" AP free on most trims, while raising (not lowering as you suggest) the price of the cars- essentially making it a "forced" option on everything except the off-menu cars (LR RWD and SR at the time)


In any event it leaves an interesting dichotomy... Pre-March-2019 buyers who went all in have so far gotten 0 extra functionality for their roughly $8000.... but they are promised real L5 driving for their money. Post-March-2019 buyers who did the same immediately got significant functionality (auto lane change, nav on AP, auto-park, summon, etc) but are promised a much narrowed future feature set... (Tesla still kind of IMPLIES they'll get some sort of L5, but it's not in the actual FSD description like it used to be pre-March-19 change)

You’re basically saying the exact things (except I admit that EAP owners get FSD for not 6k but 3k) in slightly different words.

 

[SammichLover]

Even then, a FSD pre-purchase (I think it was $6000) was available for additional money;

No, it was $3000. Eventually on sale for $2000 and a number that bought initially at $3000 got $1000 refund (I don’t know the extent or details of that, didn’t apply to me).

What Tesla has done is inverted the size of the pricing steps along with size of feature lists, and then bundled AP & $ for it into (most of ?) the new vehicle prices.

 

[AdamVIP]

I wish I had EAP. That had all the functional goodies and none of the wait and see crap. I'm on regular AP till it can drive in the city.

 

[justacarimo]

I wish I had EAP. That had all the functional goodies and none of the wait and see crap. I'm on regular AP till it can drive in the city.

Exactly! They stripped it down and moved it to FSD so that FSD early adopters get a warm and fuzzy feeling that they’re not waiting forever with nothing in their hands. Very slimy indeed

 

[Knightshade]

Exactly! They stripped it down and moved it to FSD so that FSD early adopters get a warm and fuzzy feeling that they’re not waiting forever with nothing in their hands. Very slimy indeed

This again is the exact opposite of what happened.

The actual early FSD adopters- ie everyone who bought FSD in 2016, 2017, and 2018, still have nothing in hand for their purchase.

It's only newer FSD buyers who "gain" any functionality by buying it.

 

[ezevphl]

I would only buy it if it was for my account rather than for the car.
Like if I could buy a 5 -10 year FSD subscription with the option to extend for a lifetime.
My first Model 3 was totalled and if I had paid for FSD that would have been a lot of money down the drain. I'm sure it will work one day, I'm just not sure I will have my current car then.

 

[AdamVIP]

This again is the exact opposite of what happened.

The actual early FSD adopters- ie everyone who bought FSD in 2016, 2017, and 2018, still have nothing in hand for their purchase.

It's only newer FSD buyers who "gain" any functionality by buying it.

His statement is not in conflict with your own. Hes just explaining how they ultimately deconstructed EAP to make FSD more palatable to the masses of new buyers. I suspect that prior to the change EAP had a good take rate and FSD did not.

 

[Knightshade]

His statement is not in conflict with your own.

Sure it is, unless you consider people who buy into something years after it was first available to be 'early adopters'

Hes just explaining how they ultimately deconstructed EAP to make FSD more palatable to the masses of new buyers. I suspect that prior to the change EAP had a good take rate and FSD did not.

That's the opposite what what he said. he said they did it "so that FSD early adopters get a warm and fuzzy feeling that they’re not waiting forever with nothing in their hands. "


When in fact the early adopters continue to have nothing in their hands. The only people who have anything in hand via FSD are newer, not early adopters.

 

[daniel]

FWIW, the only E feature of EAP that I use is lane-change: On certain portions of certain roads, and pretty much all of certain other roads, I can change lanes by using the turn signal. When I bought my car, there was no option to buy just AP. My options were EAP, FSD, or just plain cruise control.

I'm very happy, given the above, that I bought EAP. I LOVE LOVE LOVE autosteer and TACC. But if my car were totaled and I had to buy another, I would be very happy with plain EAP. I've never used Summon or Autopark. There are no freeways here, so NoA is moot. I'd also get the SR battery since I'm on an island that's 50 miles by 25 miles.

I would not pay for FSD unless it actually included features I want that I don't have now (since the only features of EAP that I use are included in AP except the insignificant lane change feature). Stoplight and stop-sign recognition might get me to pay for FSD, but only if they function at Level 3. As Level 2 features, I don't see them as being worth any money, since at Level 2 I'd still have to be ready to slam on the brakes at the last minute. And I won't pay for a pig in a poke. I won't buy promises.

 

[turtlesz]

I wish I had EAP. That had all the functional goodies and none of the wait and see crap. I'm on regular AP till it can drive in the city.

Actually the current FSD and pricing is much better compared to the EAP days. You are gaining much more buying now compared to early 2018 Model 3 days. Back then it was $49K + $5K = $54K for a LR RWD car w/ EAP. $57K if you bought with FSD. Basically the package was $5k+3K = $8k, vs the current package price of $6K. After taxes and fees it was over $60k for people in CA for a RWD model 3 with autopilot. AWD was an extra $5k bringing the prices to $59k w/ EAP and $62k FSD.

Fast forward to today and you can get a AWD for $47,990 w/ basic AP. Add in FSD which includes the EAP goodies and it still comes out to $53,990. Even crazier is that the Stealth Model 3 Performance was being sold for $49,990 w/ basic AP, and you can get it with FSD for $55,990. Sure you forgo some of the fed tax credit but many gain $550 extra in SCE rebate (was $450 and now $1000). The AWD is still significantly cheaper today even after factoring the federal tax credit and you pay less taxes on a lower MSRP car.

Basically to sum it up:
Last year a AWD Model 3 with EAP was $59k, w/ FSD was $62k
This year a AWD Model 3 with FSD is $53,990

 

[afadeev]

I hate buying cars! Hate it!

Hmmm, not a lot of ambiguity in the above statement

This must be about you then:

My 2008 135i I paid full MSRP and didn't even try to negotiate. When it came to my trade I just accepted whatever they offered. It still took like 5 hours of BS to get out of there.

My 2016 340i I bought from a dealer 500 miles away on the recommendation of a forum member. I got a decent deal but it was their first offer and I just accepted it. (was still several thousand less than the local dealer offered) It still took tons of paperwork, emails and a couple phone calls to complete.

So far the Tesla has been easy. I'm hoping the delivery is fast and I'm out of there quickly. Anything that makes the buying process easier is a bonus in my book.

FWIW, I had bought/leased 4 BMWs over the last five years, and paid between $500-1000 over the invoice (not MSRP). One of them was $750 over ED Invoice, if you know what that means.

It does help to have the patience and motivation to go through the whole "let me talk to the manager" routine. Some people like it, but many more don't. I'm with you on that.

Buying Tesla is definitely easier and (typically) quicker.
But good luck getting prompt or competent service performed on it after you take delivery!

Service is a different animal.

Indeed.

Unfortunately, once you get rid of the dealers, there is no option but to rely on the service droppings from an automotive OEM.
And none of them, Tesla included, would not what service was, even if she came and sat on their face.

a

 

[vjason]

I had EAP and bought during the $2K fire sale, which means that I paid for nothing. At least for now.

Figured it would never be cheaper than that, that it may help with resale if I decide to sell the car, and the hardware upgrade ensures that I have the gear needed to support future updates. As soon as EAP was nerfed the writing was on the wall, which is to say EAP is (largely) feature complete. Tesla will probably not burn a lot of software dev resources to make EAP owners happy as you own something that is no longer an option.

No I won't get true FSD, but maybe I'll get something like it, but with a lot of nags (like NOA). That is worth $2K to me.

 

[justacarimo]

Sure it is, unless you consider people who buy into something years after it was first available to be 'early adopters'




That's the opposite what what he said. he said they did it "so that FSD early adopters get a warm and fuzzy feeling that they’re not waiting forever with nothing in their hands. "


When in fact the early adopters continue to have nothing in their hands. The only people who have anything in hand via FSD are newer, not early adopters.

Newer “early adopters” got something at least. The older “early adopters” are still without anything. Agreed. Again, I agree with what you are saying (even if we are saying the same things with some details fuzzy)...all in all, the sentiment is that despite all these “moves” that are borderline slimy, people seem to trust this brand and hand them money for “future features” without even being told what exactly those features are and what they aren’t. Marketing language is never to be taken as is anyway.

 

[Zoglog]

I mainly regret buying in 2018 instead of this year's. Also getting the performance model has been one big regret.

 

[Dan203]

Also getting the performance model has been one big regret.

Why?

 

[daniel]

... people seem to trust this brand and hand them money for “future features” ...

Some do, some don't. Plenty of us bought what was available and took a pass on "future features." I trust Tesla. I don't share Elon's optimism regarding timelines. I'll buy FSD when it exists. Probably in the form of trading up my car when real FSD appears in a decade or so. Assuming I'm still ambulatory.

 

[tomas]

Some do, some don't. Plenty of us bought what was available and took a pass on "future features." I trust Tesla. I don't share Elon's optimism regarding timelines. I'll buy FSD when it exists. Probably in the form of trading up my car when real FSD appears in a decade or so. Assuming I'm still ambulatory.

I’ll push your wheelchair to the car. You’ve got this! (How do I push a wheelchair with a wheelchair??)