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I certainly regret reserving one 3 years ago, I also regret the upsell of a performance model - both done in an effort to get my car early and support the company since we have been so happy with our P Model S.
NEVER again will I give Tesla my interest free money for them to hold multiple years while I hold onto a lie that they will deliver my car in accordance to when I ordered the car, that I THOUGHT would secure me a place in line.
Giving deposit = spot in line? Nope, not at Tesla.
Loyal customer = valued customer? Nope, not at Tesla.
Customer waiting aimlessly = communicate with customer? Nope, not at Tesla.
Customer continues to wait = For an awesome car that is green, safe, fast and fun. Yep, that's Tesla.
And despite probably wanting to add a Model 3 to our garage, I'll be a monkeys uncle if I give them an early deposit again!
NEVER again will I give Tesla my interest free money for them to hold multiple years while I hold onto a lie that they will deliver my car in accordance to when I ordered the car, that I THOUGHT would secure me a place in line.
Giving deposit = spot in line? Nope, not at Tesla.
Loyal customer = valued customer? Nope, not at Tesla.
Customer waiting aimlessly = communicate with customer? Nope, not at Tesla.
Customer continues to wait = For an awesome car that is green, safe, fast and fun. Yep, that's Tesla.
And despite probably wanting to add a Model 3 to our garage, I'll be a monkeys uncle if I give them an early deposit again!
Agreed on the communication around production ramp up, delivery timetable, etc. haven't been great (though very noticeably better in the last couple weeks).
Don't agree on this sentiment though. Order of deposits correlated into access to the design studio and the ability to place an actual order.
For the X it was clearly stated that there was an order of operations they were following regarding different trim levels / options shipping first. If one opted into a configuration that was described as "late 2016" (or whatever a specific combo stated), I don't understand the frustration that other configurations hit the production line first. Maybe they could have set expectations better or made it more clearly visible on the page, but I know when I got access to the studio, it seemed readily clear to me. I personally hemmed and hawed for awhile, but ultimately configured a P90D vs a 90D for a variety of factors, but an earlier launch window was a consideration. I don't feel like I was "upsold" the upgrade either. Hell, until I plunked down a confirmed order, I hadn't ever spoken w/ anyone at Tesla to actually be sold on anything one way or another.
1. Yes
2. Yes. Please go and read the Model 3 forum where people are accusing Tesla of favouring rich people because they allowed owners preference over non-owners.
3. They communicated with customers in their quarterly earnings. They told them they are having delays. It takes few months to make some progress.
4. Yes.
They have already communicated that the loaded versions will be given priority.
pvogel
Member
Ankit, I think you are misunderstanding the point here, which is understandable as you are not an owner or reservation holder.
There was an expectation set, when Model X reservations opened, that reservations would be served in the order they were made, Founders First, Sigs second, production next. By that standard, with production reservation #1651 I should have been the 2951st X off the line (approximately, assuming 100 founders, 1200 sigs) if someone had production reservation #100 and ordered a 70D, he should have been the 1400th X off the line.
As it happens, I probably significantly jumped the line initially by having a P90D order, but because it was an early car off the line it undoubtedly had "issues" -- I choose not to look too deeply into that particular sausage factory so I don't know what might have been wrong with the car or what they may have done (all the way up to and including scrapping and rebuilding the car) to make those issues go away -- what I care about is the condition of the car when I take delivery! So as a result of that early off the line and remediation, I've hung out in a large degree of limbo, with no idea when I might get the car other than a vague promise from my DS last week assuring me it would be "this month" followed by the much anticipated call yesterday to schedule the actual delivery for 27.5 hours from now
But I placed that P90D order knowing I *want* the car sooner and I am paying a good 20+k more than I really wanted to pay (though I can afford it) to have the privilege of that early delivery -- that expectation came only from spending a lot of time on these forums, it was most definitely *not* the expectation set by Tesla when I placed my reservation.
Further, I "loaned" tesla my reservation money for far longer than I would have liked, and given how quickly they went from you've had a reservation for over 3 years, go ahead and configure to "you've had a reservation for 2 days, go ahead and configure" that 5k would have been much better spent on 200 shares of TSLA at $27/share and virtually no cost in delivery time. The opportunity cost of that $5K amounts to over $44K at todays stock price for TSLA and at peak amounts to almost $60K, with proper riding of peak/valley sell/buy waves based on the cyclical nature of TSLA it would have potentially hit $100K or more, enough to by the car!
THAT is what people are understandably and justifiably upset about. I'm *very* glad I didn't make a signature reservation (I really, really wanted a signature reserved color, but considered the timeline to be a risk and didn't want 40K tied up indefinitely).
Further, when I pre-order a product, I have an expectation, set by the market here in the US at least, that the company will keep me informed as to the progress, in some cases, that keep informed goes into *great* detail on updated timelines, etc. Part of me knows that, Tesla being a public company, cannot be quite that open with information, but even with SEC regulation *there is vast room for improvement* in the communication between the company and their reservation holders, particularly as production began in earnest. It seems to me perfectly reasonable to keep me updated as the the progress of my specific car, every step of the way. Including when it came off the line, when it went into QA, the fact that issues were found in QA and are being corrected, next update in 1 week, that sort of thing!
I'm as much (or more) of a Tesla Fanboy as anyone on this forum (with the possible exception of you Ankit) but I am also able to say that my expectations of Tesla, based on my initial 5K reservation and then my $147k purchase, were NOT met in the process leading up to tomorrow's delivery, and what it would take for Tesla to meet those expectations in the future. In short, I am constructively dissatisfied with my experience thus far!
I suspect and hope, based on *recent* reports from people taking delivery and my eternally optimistic spirit, that all of that dissatisfaction will be wiped away by delivery of an amazing car in 27.25 hours! I temper that optimism with an understanding that there *may* be lingering issues but that TSLA has an overall strong and largely (but not entirely) unblemished reputation for amazing service and that if there are lingering issues they will be resolved and I am literally surrounded by Tesla service centers within a short drive of work and home. Things would be *very* different if I lived outside of the SF bay area and had a long drive to a service center.
So, as a member of the forums here, I think I'm walking into things with my eyes wide open (but perhaps somewhat shaded by rose-colored glasses of optimism and fanboyism), but the vast majority of the Tesla buying public now, and even more so in the Model 3 future, does NOT spend ridiculous amounts of time on the TeslaMotorsClub or Tesla company forums and so is *far* less well informed and is far less able to set realistic expectations for their experience going forward after reserving a model 3 with, what to them will be, a significant outlay of cash!
There was an expectation set, when Model X reservations opened, that reservations would be served in the order they were made, Founders First, Sigs second, production next. By that standard, with production reservation #1651 I should have been the 2951st X off the line (approximately, assuming 100 founders, 1200 sigs) if someone had production reservation #100 and ordered a 70D, he should have been the 1400th X off the line.
As it happens, I probably significantly jumped the line initially by having a P90D order, but because it was an early car off the line it undoubtedly had "issues" -- I choose not to look too deeply into that particular sausage factory so I don't know what might have been wrong with the car or what they may have done (all the way up to and including scrapping and rebuilding the car) to make those issues go away -- what I care about is the condition of the car when I take delivery! So as a result of that early off the line and remediation, I've hung out in a large degree of limbo, with no idea when I might get the car other than a vague promise from my DS last week assuring me it would be "this month" followed by the much anticipated call yesterday to schedule the actual delivery for 27.5 hours from now
But I placed that P90D order knowing I *want* the car sooner and I am paying a good 20+k more than I really wanted to pay (though I can afford it) to have the privilege of that early delivery -- that expectation came only from spending a lot of time on these forums, it was most definitely *not* the expectation set by Tesla when I placed my reservation.
Further, I "loaned" tesla my reservation money for far longer than I would have liked, and given how quickly they went from you've had a reservation for over 3 years, go ahead and configure to "you've had a reservation for 2 days, go ahead and configure" that 5k would have been much better spent on 200 shares of TSLA at $27/share and virtually no cost in delivery time. The opportunity cost of that $5K amounts to over $44K at todays stock price for TSLA and at peak amounts to almost $60K, with proper riding of peak/valley sell/buy waves based on the cyclical nature of TSLA it would have potentially hit $100K or more, enough to by the car!
THAT is what people are understandably and justifiably upset about. I'm *very* glad I didn't make a signature reservation (I really, really wanted a signature reserved color, but considered the timeline to be a risk and didn't want 40K tied up indefinitely).
Further, when I pre-order a product, I have an expectation, set by the market here in the US at least, that the company will keep me informed as to the progress, in some cases, that keep informed goes into *great* detail on updated timelines, etc. Part of me knows that, Tesla being a public company, cannot be quite that open with information, but even with SEC regulation *there is vast room for improvement* in the communication between the company and their reservation holders, particularly as production began in earnest. It seems to me perfectly reasonable to keep me updated as the the progress of my specific car, every step of the way. Including when it came off the line, when it went into QA, the fact that issues were found in QA and are being corrected, next update in 1 week, that sort of thing!
I'm as much (or more) of a Tesla Fanboy as anyone on this forum (with the possible exception of you Ankit) but I am also able to say that my expectations of Tesla, based on my initial 5K reservation and then my $147k purchase, were NOT met in the process leading up to tomorrow's delivery, and what it would take for Tesla to meet those expectations in the future. In short, I am constructively dissatisfied with my experience thus far!
I suspect and hope, based on *recent* reports from people taking delivery and my eternally optimistic spirit, that all of that dissatisfaction will be wiped away by delivery of an amazing car in 27.25 hours! I temper that optimism with an understanding that there *may* be lingering issues but that TSLA has an overall strong and largely (but not entirely) unblemished reputation for amazing service and that if there are lingering issues they will be resolved and I am literally surrounded by Tesla service centers within a short drive of work and home. Things would be *very* different if I lived outside of the SF bay area and had a long drive to a service center.
So, as a member of the forums here, I think I'm walking into things with my eyes wide open (but perhaps somewhat shaded by rose-colored glasses of optimism and fanboyism), but the vast majority of the Tesla buying public now, and even more so in the Model 3 future, does NOT spend ridiculous amounts of time on the TeslaMotorsClub or Tesla company forums and so is *far* less well informed and is far less able to set realistic expectations for their experience going forward after reserving a model 3 with, what to them will be, a significant outlay of cash!
Folks got access to the Design Studio based on their reservation number, which seems fair. I don't think its reasonable to expect cars to be delivered in order reservation number as different folks have different needs, budgets, etc. Even with the S, Tesla used to have shorter wait times for the P than for the regular models--I am not sure I can fault Tesla for using quicker delivery as a lure for the P upsell--they are running a business. Finally, in terms of scaling production, I don't think it would be smart to try and ramp up on all the variations all at the same time--that would make for a bigger QA headache than the current ramp.
Agree with omarsultan for my case atleast, I did not configure my X until after I test drove at the Seattle Meet the Model X event even though the design studio opened for me well over 6 weeks before the event. I could have chose to wait few more months to configure and commit to the order which means Tesla cant hold the line for me. So in that sense it seems logical that some later reservation holders are taking earlier production slots.
What I believe is wrong is that some Sig reservation holders are yet to receive their cars while production cars are already delivered.
What I believe is wrong is that some Sig reservation holders are yet to receive their cars while production cars are already delivered.
Yes! @pvogel,
just to clarify @ankitmishra - I have a fully loaded P90D which was reserved in 2013 and confirmed 12/4/15 (was actually asked to pay in December). VIN in low 300s And my delivery date window is after many people with non Performance and with VINs 500+. (And I am in CA). THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE. No logic can tell me why this is the case... and if there were an issue with my car, my DS should have COMMUNICATED and I would have been perfectly reasonable and understanding because this is cutting edge technology.
So it's a snowpile of issues for me. And trust me, I too am a fan boy and have been for some time. Elon is still by boy, but Tesla has really cut some new wounds and thrown salt in. I am sure I will enjoy the car once I get it, but I hope others don't make my mistakes and I hope Tesla realizes that they cannot do this to their customers, or they will have fewer of them.
just to clarify @ankitmishra - I have a fully loaded P90D which was reserved in 2013 and confirmed 12/4/15 (was actually asked to pay in December). VIN in low 300s And my delivery date window is after many people with non Performance and with VINs 500+. (And I am in CA). THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE. No logic can tell me why this is the case... and if there were an issue with my car, my DS should have COMMUNICATED and I would have been perfectly reasonable and understanding because this is cutting edge technology.
So it's a snowpile of issues for me. And trust me, I too am a fan boy and have been for some time. Elon is still by boy, but Tesla has really cut some new wounds and thrown salt in. I am sure I will enjoy the car once I get it, but I hope others don't make my mistakes and I hope Tesla realizes that they cannot do this to their customers, or they will have fewer of them.
Elon said in the reveal video that reservations would be done in the same way as Model S. Now, I have read that in the Model S deliveries too the loaded ones were given priority. If there was some other communication made except this its possible I may not know of it.Ankit, I think you are misunderstanding the point here, which is understandable as you are not an owner or reservation holder.
There was an expectation set, when Model X reservations opened, that reservations would be served in the order they were made, Founders First, Sigs second, production next. By that standard, with production reservation #1651 I should have been the 2951st X off the line (approximately, assuming 100 founders, 1200 sigs) if someone had production reservation #100 and ordered a 70D, he should have been the 1400th X off the line.
As it happens, I probably significantly jumped the line initially by having a P90D order, but because it was an early car off the line it undoubtedly had "issues" -- I choose not to look too deeply into that particular sausage factory so I don't know what might have been wrong with the car or what they may have done (all the way up to and including scrapping and rebuilding the car) to make those issues go away -- what I care about is the condition of the car when I take delivery! So as a result of that early off the line and remediation, I've hung out in a large degree of limbo, with no idea when I might get the car other than a vague promise from my DS last week assuring me it would be "this month" followed by the much anticipated call yesterday to schedule the actual delivery for 27.5 hours from now
But I placed that P90D order knowing I *want* the car sooner and I am paying a good 20+k more than I really wanted to pay (though I can afford it) to have the privilege of that early delivery -- that expectation came only from spending a lot of time on these forums, it was most definitely *not* the expectation set by Tesla when I placed my reservation.
Further, I "loaned" tesla my reservation money for far longer than I would have liked, and given how quickly they went from you've had a reservation for over 3 years, go ahead and configure to "you've had a reservation for 2 days, go ahead and configure" that 5k would have been much better spent on 200 shares of TSLA at $27/share and virtually no cost in delivery time. The opportunity cost of that $5K amounts to over $44K at todays stock price for TSLA and at peak amounts to almost $60K, with proper riding of peak/valley sell/buy waves based on the cyclical nature of TSLA it would have potentially hit $100K or more, enough to by the car!
THAT is what people are understandably and justifiably upset about. I'm *very* glad I didn't make a signature reservation (I really, really wanted a signature reserved color, but considered the timeline to be a risk and didn't want 40K tied up indefinitely).
Further, when I pre-order a product, I have an expectation, set by the market here in the US at least, that the company will keep me informed as to the progress, in some cases, that keep informed goes into *great* detail on updated timelines, etc. Part of me knows that, Tesla being a public company, cannot be quite that open with information, but even with SEC regulation *there is vast room for improvement* in the communication between the company and their reservation holders, particularly as production began in earnest. It seems to me perfectly reasonable to keep me updated as the the progress of my specific car, every step of the way. Including when it came off the line, when it went into QA, the fact that issues were found in QA and are being corrected, next update in 1 week, that sort of thing!
I'm as much (or more) of a Tesla Fanboy as anyone on this forum (with the possible exception of you Ankit) but I am also able to say that my expectations of Tesla, based on my initial 5K reservation and then my $147k purchase, were NOT met in the process leading up to tomorrow's delivery, and what it would take for Tesla to meet those expectations in the future. In short, I am constructively dissatisfied with my experience thus far!
I suspect and hope, based on *recent* reports from people taking delivery and my eternally optimistic spirit, that all of that dissatisfaction will be wiped away by delivery of an amazing car in 27.25 hours! I temper that optimism with an understanding that there *may* be lingering issues but that TSLA has an overall strong and largely (but not entirely) unblemished reputation for amazing service and that if there are lingering issues they will be resolved and I am literally surrounded by Tesla service centers within a short drive of work and home. Things would be *very* different if I lived outside of the SF bay area and had a long drive to a service center.
So, as a member of the forums here, I think I'm walking into things with my eyes wide open (but perhaps somewhat shaded by rose-colored glasses of optimism and fanboyism), but the vast majority of the Tesla buying public now, and even more so in the Model 3 future, does NOT spend ridiculous amounts of time on the TeslaMotorsClub or Tesla company forums and so is *far* less well informed and is far less able to set realistic expectations for their experience going forward after reserving a model 3 with, what to them will be, a significant outlay of cash!
Who told us that those cars had problem? Scrapping and rebuilding? Sure, they might have problems with seats, doors etc but I would like to know the origin of this theory. I have read this theory in TM forums and have responded to the people proposing it. i found it surprising that people believe that a company like Tesla could allow such a grave mistake that a batch of its car had to be scrapped. Let me share my theory with you - Tesla wasn't prepared with X. They were bounded by the timelines they gave, hence they made token deliveries in December. After that, they went to the thinking room to sort out the problems with X. When the new deadline (March delivery numbers) arrived, they started deliveries again. No cars were scrapped. Now, they cant share with people in January that their car will arrive in late March. Very few people are forgiving and would have criticised Tesla as much as they could if they told them that. Its better to let them speculate and only open the communication channel to tell the delivery date for there car.
People gave their $5000 or $40000 to reserve the car. If they wanted to buy shares, they should done that. They told people at the reveal that deliveries will begin in 2014. So, the delay is of 2 years. Now, people don't appreciate the difficulty Tesla faced. They are the pioneers in electric propulsion. Elon has stated more than one time that most of their time and resources went to tackle the problems with Model S. So, its not like they were careless here. They tried there best. It couldn't have been done in any other way.
Its the right of people if they want to be upset about this.
Once again, people are comparing the things that mediocre companies do with the things Tesla does. Tesla is still working on X and simultaneously delivering them too. Its not a time to make announcements and give updates. They would like to move ahead gradually without attracting any extra attention to X. It will still take many months from here when they are have reached the level of quality that they want. Most of the events related to Model X are filled with pain as of now and they don't want to share them with the reservation holders. You guys will only hear from them when they are ready to deliver your car.
Yet again, we are assuming Tesla doesn't know this. They have learnt from the Model X experience. Maybe that's why they are giving owners a preference over non owners in case of Model 3. And they have already announced that loaded versions will be given preference.
Thanks for being civil in discussion.
May I know if you ordered a 5 seater? Or have you ordered a non premium package? Onyx wheels? What is your delivery date? Please share your configuration if you can.
Huh.. what did you try to say here? Pain what? There was no pain at the event..
That sounds like a fact.. were you part of Tesla learning team? How do you know what they took back?
They call this poor planning and bad execution. Customers will wait for 2 years but not without frustration and disappointment. Granted that the customer has a choice to pull the reservation out and move on (which some people did), that is not what is expected of cult companies/products like Tesla.
Everyone understands and appreciates how complex are these cars and that is why people are willing to pay the high price. Such high price also demands high grade of service (prompt communication being part of that) which is lacking at the moment from Tesla.
pvogel
Member
@ankitmishra, actually, initial delivery expectations were set at late 2013.
Yes, they said that about Model S, and, in hindsight and with full knowledge of the past year's worth of content in the forums here I understand that things are slotted in higher value first, etc. but that wasn't the way the general public who vaguely followed Tesla understood the ordering.
You are being far too tolerant of Tesla's decision process -- yes, much of this was driven by shareholder concerns (and as a shareholder with significant stake, that matters to me) but as one CEO I respect used to put it to me, we're not going to do something stupid just because wall street expects it since it will reduce long term value. That's what I think Tesla did here -- they made some stupid short-term decisions -- certainly not fatal or of significant impact so far, but I do think they have done brand damage.
I think what we ALL want (particularly shareholders) is for Tesla to get their $#!+ together before model 3, which as a mass-market product will be a much more significant hit to their brand if they get it wrong.
Yes, they said that about Model S, and, in hindsight and with full knowledge of the past year's worth of content in the forums here I understand that things are slotted in higher value first, etc. but that wasn't the way the general public who vaguely followed Tesla understood the ordering.
You are being far too tolerant of Tesla's decision process -- yes, much of this was driven by shareholder concerns (and as a shareholder with significant stake, that matters to me) but as one CEO I respect used to put it to me, we're not going to do something stupid just because wall street expects it since it will reduce long term value. That's what I think Tesla did here -- they made some stupid short-term decisions -- certainly not fatal or of significant impact so far, but I do think they have done brand damage.
I think what we ALL want (particularly shareholders) is for Tesla to get their $#!+ together before model 3, which as a mass-market product will be a much more significant hit to their brand if they get it wrong.
@ankitmishra - my question to you is: Why do you think that Tesla Motors sits on a pedestal above all other 'mediocre' automobile manufactures?
I would argue, if Tesla Motors was truly a revolutionary company on the 'bleeding edge' of automotive technology, and better than their peers, they would have had the knowledge and passion to ensure that their products were equal to or better than the other choices that free market consumers have, not just have more technological functionality.
CarlK
Active Member
SMSMD
Active Member
Thanks for making me aware of the IGNORE LIST.. one added , I totally agree with you, except for the private posts in the TM Ankit is every where, he responds to your post on TMC as well as TM, same rhetoric.I am so
now I have the ignore list.
aija SigX 649
Winged Lion
My detailer had the same issue. Tesla SC sent a tech over to the shop as they couldn't get the door to close. The tech said he needed to replace a faulty latch. When I picked the car up the front window wasn't closing properly, so I called the SC and they walked me through a relatively quick and easy recalibration procedure. Roll window down and continue holding button for 3 seconds after window is all the way down, then repeat for up (apparently same on Model S) - all good now.
Interesting that you were able to resolve the closed/timed-out door latch on your own - good to know! How (and why) do you need to manually roll the window down to get the door to close?
ModelXBoy
No More Door Captain of TMC! Oh Yeah Baby!
Definitely no regret of getting the X. Model X is the only car i have been waiting for almost 2 years for. The only thing i don't like is the whole delivery process is the communication issue with the DS. I am in the dark pretty much most of the time and I think if communication is getting better, the overall experience will increase tremendously.
brucet999
Active Member
That door latch failure seems to be a not uncommon problem. Same thing happened last month to another TMC member when he was showing off his X to a group of Model S owners in Orange County. Several minutes with Customer Support and a lot of angst before it was able to be latched.
