Don't buy FSD for $2k more. [from 2019 - FSD upgrade not available for 2k at this time]

[SammichLover]

Some features, I’m wondering if there’s a limit to what FSD is. They could come along and have a new system called “Full Autonomy” let’s say. Then cap the FSD feature suite and add the newer features and hardware to the new system.

That thought has occurred to me but Tesla's description of FSB doesn't leave a lot of room for further automation. Their description is to the point of lacking manual interaction to hook up at appropriately configured Superchargers.

 

[Glamisduner]

I have EAP. Paid 5k. Declined the FSD at the time. Yesterday, my account offered FSD for 2k. Today, it's offered for 3k.

I'm pretty sure it was said that it would be a little while until you get the 2k price. I wold expect it to come back when the systems are updated.

 

[svp6]

What were those EAP features? Because there was not a defined list. When I was buying it, I was told that it is under development, and features are to be added later. In fact, it still says that it is BETA. Now, I am told that I need to pay $2000 for those features.

EAP has navigate on autopilot / lane change, summon and parking which are now included in FSD. TACC and lane-keep are the only features in current autopilot. You keep all your current EAP capabilities without needing to purchase FSD .

 

[Eno Deb]

According to Tesla's website, it IS autonomous. Unless it needs intervention from passenger's seat...

"
Full Self-Driving Capability
All Tesla vehicles have the hardware needed in the future for full self-driving in almost all circumstances, at a safety level we believe will be at least twice as good as the average human driver. The system is designed to be able to conduct short and long distancetrips with no action required by the person in the driver’s seat. For Superchargers that have automatic charge connection enabled, you will not even need to plug in your vehicle."

That was yesterday. If you go to the order page for the FSD upgrade now, you'll find this text:

"The current features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous. The future use of these features without supervision is dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of miles of experience, as well as regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions. As these self-driving features evolve, your car will be continuously upgraded through over-the-air software updates."

 

[BlueX]

Yeah. I’m not paying them MORE money when my same car is $3500 cheaper than I bought it for six months ago.

Don’t feel sad, my MX is less the 3 months old and is over $10,000 less now for the same options, and it have better sit too. With EAP and FSD

 

[Thomas Edison]

That was yesterday. If you go to the order page for the FSD upgrade now, you'll find this text:

"The current features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous. The future use of these features without supervision is dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of miles of experience, as well as regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions. As these self-driving features evolve, your car will be continuously upgraded through over-the-air software updates."

Is there fine print anywhere saying what the limit of FSD is? That last sentence makes it look like there isn’t.

 

[SammichLover]

"<legal posterior covering> As these self-driving features evolve, your car will be continuously upgraded through over-the-air software updates."

They are providing a lot better information now, to set current usage expectations. However they've got 10's of thousands of vehicles worth of FSB sold using that old text. That's their vision and they've put themselves on the hook for it.

 

[Eno Deb]

Is there fine print anywhere saying what the limit of FSD is? That last sentence makes it look like there isn’t.

Nope. Neither is there any hint when it could possibly reach some level of autonomy as the rest of the industry defines it. Could be next year, could be in 5 years, could be never.

 

[GoTzillaR]

That was yesterday. If you go to the order page for the FSD upgrade now, you'll find this text:

"The current features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous. The future use of these features without supervision is dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of miles of experience, as well as regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions. As these self-driving features evolve, your car will be continuously upgraded through over-the-air software updates."

That's on the ordering page. I'm a current owner of an X. If I paid $2k down today for FSD, I'd be expecting what Tesla's website says today.

Autopilot

 

[Eno Deb]

That's on the ordering page. I'm a current owner of an X. If I paid $2k down today for FSD, I'd be expecting what Tesla's website says today.

Autopilot

I don't disagree with you. I think Tesla's marketing, including this particular web page, is at least borderline deceptive.

 

[GoTzillaR]

I don't disagree with you. I think Tesla's marketing, including this particular web page, is at least borderline deceptive.

Agreed. I'm ok with what Tesla can do and cannot do in autonomous, but Tesla shouldn't make false advertisement to allure people's trust and money.

 

[Dan123]

How can you ascribe to EAP a feature if it wasn't on a list?

Especially when you were told that there was another set of features that were going to fall under FSB?

No, when I was buying FSD was not on the menu, and no features was ascribed to FSD.

 

[SammichLover]

I don't disagree with you. I think Tesla's marketing, including this particular web page, is at least borderline deceptive.

One is talking about today, the other is talking about their goal for the system at some indeterminate time into the future. They do use different tenses. Not deceptive, not even borderline. However I would agree that inattentive reading and/or wishful thinking could easily lead the reader astray.

 

[SammichLover]

No, when I was buying FSD was not on the menu, and no features was ascribed to FSD.

Then you aren't talking about a Model 3, you're in the wrong forum.

What was on "the list"?

 

[Dan123]

EAP has navigate on autopilot / lane change, summon and parking which are now included in FSD. TACC and lane-keep are the only features in current autopilot. You keep all your current EAP capabilities without needing to purchase FSD .

Right, it was very nice of Elon to define what I paid $5000 for. Post-factum and in a tweet.

I wasn't buying some specific capabilities for $5000. I was buying a promise that they would develop some future features. Now, they said that they will stop developing those features for me, unless I pony up additional $3000. Bait and switch.

 

[Dan123]

Then you aren't talking about a Model 3, you're in the wrong forum.

What was on "the list"?

In October 2018 they dropped FSD from the list. Only EAP was offered for people who purchased their cars between October 19 and February 28.

 

[SammichLover]

In October 2018 they dropped FSD from the list. Only EAP was offered for people who purchased their cars between October 19 and February 28.

Oh FFS.

 

[pilotSteve]

That was yesterday. If you go to the order page for the FSD upgrade now, you'll find this text:

"The current features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous. The future use of these features without supervision is dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of miles of experience, as well as regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions. As these self-driving features evolve, your car will be continuously upgraded through over-the-air software updates."

So (as an owner that paid for “FSD” in December 2016) I’m starting to feel like I bought Fool Self Driving.......

 

[M3BlueGeorgia]

No because now Tesla have defined what FSD is and they just have to meet those goals even if the software is in beta and marginally useful.

Tesla definition of FSD doesn’t map to industry standard definitions of autonomous driving.

Not valid, sorry.

Tesla have described what capabilities FSD will allow you to access in 2019.

Eventually Tesla are targeting proper FSD and seem to think they will eventually get there, but we are several years away from that, which includes changes to traffic laws to allow you to completely let the car drive itself.

I'm very happy with the incremental improvements toward proper FSD, but please don't get oversold on what will be delivered and usable when.

 

[SammichLover]

I'm very happy with the incremental improvements toward proper FSD, but please don't get oversold on what will be delivered and usable when.

So much this. It does give me pause for thought of how good, and how soon the stop sign/red light detection will be. Really that's what I expect I'll be buying this for, a hard material feature. That's why I didn't bundle FSD into my purchase last year, taking the risk that I'd end up wanting it and paying more for it ultimately, they didn't have actual concrete features. It was all vague future goals enabled via handwavium.