Don't buy FSD for $2k more. [from 2019 - FSD upgrade not available for 2k at this time]

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I think people are crazy if they buy FSD for an additional 2k. The value of this package is $5 for everyone who purchased before the price changes. This is because tesla has created that value for it. Don't support them on asking for more money if you already paid 5k for EAP! Don't give them a dime more. They specifically told early adopters that FSD package would cost more later, only to go back on their word and do the EXACT opposite. Stone cold about it too! Not cool.

Plus we all know waiting pays off with tesla. It's likely best to not purchase any software upgrades if your getting a new car. Apparently they will reward you later with cheaper prices on those software updates. Right now if you have EAP buying FSD gives you absolutely no additional features. By the time those features are out you may be in a different car!

If you want to donate to tesla go ahead and give them your 2K though. Otherwise I would suggest not supporting this flip/flopping company tactic on their software upgrades.

All they had to do was leave FSD at 3k to upgrade for EAP users, and offer the package to anyone who bought neither at 8k. No one would be upset.

If Tesla goes bankrupt, please don't post here fretting about how you're going to get your car serviced.

 

[SunCharged]

If Tesla goes bankrupt, please don't post here fretting about how you're going to get your car serviced.

Eventually when the market gets big enough independent shops will pop up that will service electric vehicles. They'll charge $100/hr vs. Tesla's $150/hr.

 

[NewTMSMan]

Eventually when the market gets big enough independent shops will pop up that will service electric vehicles. They'll charge $100/hr vs. Tesla's $150/hr.

Main existing issue is Tesla will not release their diagnostic software so independents cannot do this yet. Suspect Telsa will keep this proprietary and effectively block this option as this area becomes a revenue generating area.

 

[SammichLover]

Eventually when the market gets big enough independent shops will pop up that will service electric vehicles. They'll charge $100/hr vs. Tesla's $150/hr.

It's starting to happen already. The Rich Rebuilds guy has started up a shop. Benoit is pretty bush league, a solid DIYer at best, but his partner is a legit pro auto mechanic that includes a stint as a Tesla tech on his resume. They've broken ground on the physical shop location.

It'll probably take Tesla opening up their parts supply & software, either by going under of business so their suppliers are free to sell elsewhere and there's nobody to try shutdown 3rd party hacks (via legal action or software update counter-measurers), getting sued and compelled by a government agency of some sort, or voluntarily getting with the 3rd party support program.

The Model 3 is going to be pushing this a lot harder than the Model S and X did, because the vast majority of the later vehicles have been under warranty for now so the market is fairly limited. However we're going to start to see Model 3s coming out of warranty by next year and it'll ramp geometrically over the next few years, same as their sales did. Vehicles outside of warranty coverage will drive demand for 3rd party mechanic services. Without that it is niche limited to people that want to tune and tinker, and those people often are DIYers themselves.

 

[Glamisduner]

If Tesla goes bankrupt, please don't post here fretting about how you're going to get your car serviced.

If they do, they did it to themselves. What does that have to do with the current 2k fsd purchase on a system that does not exist?

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

If they do, they did it to themselves. What does that have to do with the current 2k fsd purchase on a system that does not exist?

Because "that does not exist" isn't why you posted. You posted because _YOU_ are upset that _YOU_ paid $5k+$3k and that other owners are getting lower offers. You're treating Tesla's offers as a personal affront, rather than the cold, hard financial reality of managing demand and cashflow.

If you were giving _objective_ purchase advice against paying for FSD the relevant arguments would be about whether Tesla will deliver the non-EAP features of FSD, their value, and future pricing. Nothing else.

You started with a comment about broken promises on pricing. You didn't mention whether the new features would be delivered until the end of the 2nd paragraph. You mentioned people being upset, which isn't at all relevant.

The advertised additional FSD features that Tesla claims are coming this year are:
- Recognize and respond to traffic lights and stop signs.
- Automatic driving on city streets.

I would tell owners with EAP not to pay $2k for FSD because:
- Tesla has failed to deliver on features many times
- delivered features have often been unreliable enough that individual owners can't depend on them
- the promised features would have to be extremely dependable in order to be better than EAP.
- I expect (though I do not have personal experience) TACC and autosteer provide a large enough benefit by themselves that the value of the additional advertised features wouldn't be that great
- that even if they deliver and you don't buy now, they might have a special offer later; or you might find that the new features, together with the benefits of the new hardware to the EAP features would still be worth paying for later at a higher price.

 

[Glamisduner]

Because "that does not exist" isn't why you posted. You posted because _YOU_ are upset that _YOU_ paid $5k+$3k and that other owners are getting lower offers. You're treating Tesla's offers as a personal affront, rather than the cold, hard financial reality of managing demand and cashflow.

If you were giving _objective_ purchase advice against paying for FSD the relevant arguments would be about whether Tesla will deliver the non-EAP features of FSD, their value, and future pricing. Nothing else.

You started with a comment about broken promises on pricing. You didn't mention whether the new features would be delivered until the end of the 2nd paragraph. You mentioned people being upset, which isn't at all relevant.

The advertised additional FSD features that Tesla claims are coming this year are:
- Recognize and respond to traffic lights and stop signs.
- Automatic driving on city streets.

I would tell owners with EAP not to pay $2k for FSD because:
- Tesla has failed to deliver on features many times
- delivered features have often been unreliable enough that individual owners can't depend on them
- the promised features would have to be extremely dependable in order to be better than EAP.
- I expect (though I do not have personal experience) TACC and autosteer provide a large enough benefit by themselves that the value of the additional advertised features wouldn't be that great
- that even if they deliver and you don't buy now, they might have a special offer later; or you might find that the new features, together with the benefits of the new hardware to the EAP features would still be worth paying for later at a higher price.

I think you need to re-read my initial post.

BTW I obviously didn't order FSD and only EAP otherwise the whole topic about FSD for 2k more would not make sense.

 

[rking0122]

So I received an email from CS today that the option should be in my account to purchase FSD, although the pricing may not yet reflect the drop to $2000. Looked, nothing there still. (I have EAP)

Called again to let them know the option wasn't there. This representative told me AP2.0 cars are not able to be upgraded to FSD at any price and thats why it isn't there. SMH.

Is anyone with an AP2.0 car presented with the option to upgrade in your Tesla account?

If this rep is right, there are going to be a lot of pissed off AP2.0 owners. I specifically bought an AP2.0 car to have the option of future FSD instead of a used AP1 car with other options I would have liked. I can't believe they'd ditch AP2.0 owners like that, but maybe I can.

I'm in the same boat as you with my 12/2016 AP2 Model X with the $5k EAP option.

 

[Glamisduner]

So I received an email from CS today that the option should be in my account to purchase FSD, although the pricing may not yet reflect the drop to $2000. Looked, nothing there still. (I have EAP)

Called again to let them know the option wasn't there. This representative told me AP2.0 cars are not able to be upgraded to FSD at any price and thats why it isn't there. SMH.

Is anyone with an AP2.0 car presented with the option to upgrade in your Tesla account?

If this rep is right, there are going to be a lot of pissed off AP2.0 owners. I specifically bought an AP2.0 car to have the option of future FSD instead of a used AP1 car with other options I would have liked. I can't believe they'd ditch AP2.0 owners like that, but maybe I can.

I'd think they are wrong, I don't think there was much difference between 2 and 2.5.

 

[Glamisduner]

Do not try and buy the FSD, that's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth...there is no FSD.

 

[DiamondHands]

So I received an email from CS today that the option should be in my account to purchase FSD, although the pricing may not yet reflect the drop to $2000. Looked, nothing there still. (I have EAP)

Called again to let them know the option wasn't there. This representative told me AP2.0 cars are not able to be upgraded to FSD at any price and thats why it isn't there. SMH.

Is anyone with an AP2.0 car presented with the option to upgrade in your Tesla account?

If this rep is right, there are going to be a lot of pissed off AP2.0 owners. I specifically bought an AP2.0 car to have the option of future FSD instead of a used AP1 car with other options I would have liked. I can't believe they'd ditch AP2.0 owners like that, but maybe I can.

Well that’s rather disappointing.

I have EAP, and I also see the option for purchasing FSD for $3k.

 

[SammichLover]

Well that’s rather disappointing.

I have EAP, and I also see the option for purchasing FSD for $3k.

Being in this forum, you've got a Model 3? All Model 3s, from the very first ones rolling off the line, have AP 2.5. It is only older S and X vehicles that have AP 2.0. I'm not sure about the approximate cutover date on them, someone in the Model S forum could give that info.

 

[CarterStC]

Do not try and buy the FSD, that's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth...there is no FSD.

BEST POST EVER!
Now I know what I'm going to watch tonight.

 

[DiamondHands]

Being in this forum, you've got a Model 3? All Model 3s, from the very first ones rolling off the line, have AP 2.5. It is only older S and X vehicles that have AP 2.0. I'm not sure about the approximate cutover date on them, someone in the Model S forum could give that info.

I don’t have a Model 3, I had initially joined this thread because the subject line applied to me.

 

[LyftupX]

I won’t be buying it unless it is absolute must have over the “enhanced EAP “ we have.

You know the one that slams on brakes and has hesitations here and there.

Not complaining but there is a diligence one must have when enabling these things.

 

[CCIE]

Main existing issue is Tesla will not release their diagnostic software so independents cannot do this yet. Suspect Telsa will keep this proprietary and effectively block this option as this area becomes a revenue generating area.

All of the car manufacturers allow 3rd party access to their programming/diagnostic software for a price. Tesla will be forced to do the same at some point. It’ll probably take a lawsuit.

 

[afadeev]

Anyone that gets FSD will get the AP3 hardware.
[...]
This is the time to pull the lever for FSD.

If you wait till features for FSD come out you'll find it going higher as people will wake up, and realize they don't have something needed for something new.

Do you actually have any data that will support the assertion of FSD order == AP3 hardware?
If not, the above logic is pure day-dreaming.

You can pay for FSD now, but if no cars are rolling off the factory with AP3 hardware, you will have to be upgraded. For free or otherwise, you will be no better off than those who buy FSD later.

YMMV,
a

 

[CarterStC]

Do you actually have any data that will support the assertion of FSD order == AP3 hardware?
If not, the above logic is pure day-dreaming.

You can pay for FSD now, but if no cars are rolling off the factory with AP3 hardware, you will have to be upgraded. For free or otherwise, you will be no better off than those who buy FSD later.

YMMV,
a

Technically, anyone that buys a Model 3 is owed the hardware to enable FSD. It was stated on the order page that the car comes with the hardware to allow FSD. Purchasing FSD was not a requirement.

 

[GeoX750]

If they do, they did it to themselves. What does that have to do with the current 2k fsd purchase on a system that does not exist?

Do not try and buy the FSD, that's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth...there is no FSD.

Exactly, that is why I am not going to buy FSD. It's not possible. Doesn't matter if I pay Tesla $3K or $2K, I am not actually getting FSD.

 

[rking0122]

If there are any other AP2.0 drivers out there who are being told you can't have FSD now (or any who can) will you chime in?

This was Tesla's position in 2017.

....
Tesla still believes that it can achieve the promised full autonomy on the 2.0 suite, but they now say that they could upgrade HW 2.0 cars with the new 2.5 hardware at no cost in the “highly unlikely” possibility that it is actually needed:

“However, we still expect to achieve full self-driving capability with safety more than twice as good as the average human driver without making any hardware changes to HW 2.0. If this does not turn out to be the case, which we think is highly unlikely, we will upgrade customers to the 2.5 computer at no cost.”
....
Tesla has a new Autopilot ‘2.5’ hardware suite with more computing power for autonomous driving