I think the key to having a good experience with EAP is to understand what it does well and what it does not do well. I use it for about 90% of my driving, but i go out and back in frequently, e.g., for aggressive lane changes in traffic.
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Don't take your hands off the wheel
- Thread starter smatthew
- Start date
Well, I respect your goal, but it is not there yet. A lot of alertness and ability to respond and take over where appropriate is still needed.
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If Keith Barry does not own a Tesla with EAP or FSD, (and maybe he does?)I would question his ability to evaluate NOA. It is like having a novice rider evaluate a racehorse.
I looked at your join date here, and i would like to suggest that perhaps you did not have autosteer engaged? I could be wrong, but i am thinking you are a novice user of EAP? (The car is very shy about changing lanes and generally excellent and staying in its lane.)
Fernand
Active Member
One of the nastiest gotchas is dropping out of AS and not
realizing it. I've had that happen many times, when I jerked
the wheel to stifle a nag, and then thought the car was doing
crazy stuff. Not. It was OUT of AS every time. I think there's
a chime, but in the heat of the moment, reacting to the nag,
I've often failed to realize it until I looked at the screen, or
noticed the car was going straight ... into an obstacle.
It's a fine line situation for some of us, between nags and
tugging it out of AS. And the frosting on the cake is that it
usually stays in TACC and barrels along blindly.
I've ended up adding some weights on the wheel, not at all
to defeat the nags, but so that it's satisfied sensing the
resistance of my hand at the 3 o'clock position.
If anyone tried to drive my car with no hands on the wheel,
it would go through the whole nag progression. But as long
as I'm holding the wheel, I don't have to risk the more serious
danger of knocking it out of AS unawares by having to tug
at the wheel. The car is calibrated for average drivers, not
everyone fits. And the PC nellies who ban any discussion of
counterweights can go take a hike, off the road if they prefer.
.
realizing it. I've had that happen many times, when I jerked
the wheel to stifle a nag, and then thought the car was doing
crazy stuff. Not. It was OUT of AS every time. I think there's
a chime, but in the heat of the moment, reacting to the nag,
I've often failed to realize it until I looked at the screen, or
noticed the car was going straight ... into an obstacle.
It's a fine line situation for some of us, between nags and
tugging it out of AS. And the frosting on the cake is that it
usually stays in TACC and barrels along blindly.
I've ended up adding some weights on the wheel, not at all
to defeat the nags, but so that it's satisfied sensing the
resistance of my hand at the 3 o'clock position.
If anyone tried to drive my car with no hands on the wheel,
it would go through the whole nag progression. But as long
as I'm holding the wheel, I don't have to risk the more serious
danger of knocking it out of AS unawares by having to tug
at the wheel. The car is calibrated for average drivers, not
everyone fits. And the PC nellies who ban any discussion of
counterweights can go take a hike, off the road if they prefer.
.
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I think you need to learn some self control...the wheel only needs a light tug to know your hand is there, of you can't control how hard you pull the wheel I don't know what to tell you.
Fernand
Active Member
Then don't.
How long have you been driving a Mod3?
The nerve of some nubies is baffling.
Not everybody functions the same,
and not everyone is as "self-controlled"
a guru as you. Do you also give lessons?
artsci
Sponsor
Very good advice. In tricky situations like you describe, it's critically important not only to have your hands on the wheel but also to expect the unexpected.
The amount of force required to drop out of AS is variable depending on situation/speed/turning rate. In some scenarios it is VERY EASY to accidentally drop out of AS.
Obviously this is personal preference, but have you tried resting you hand more at the 4-5 o'clock position? That allows for you to semi rest your arm and be able to use your wrist to adjust hand pressure.
XLR82XS
D M C
XLR82XS
D M C
AS was engaged and it DARTED over to the right lane next to me. (2-lane road) I've used AP plenty with the Model S and for about 80% of the trip home from delivery which is ~120 miles. It was flawless on the 2-lane stretch of straight alligator alley here in S. FL. all the way to my exit at which time I disengaged. Curves involved as well.
Could there have been a phantom "object" it detected in front of or on the left side of the car?
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Got some dashcam video of this incident? On clearly marked roads AS does not generally leave its lane if not told to via turn signal.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
There is definitely a “sad face” chime when Autosteer disengages due to steering input.
XLR82XS
D M C
I don't - just installed a flash drive yesterday for Sentry, etc... Text this morning from SC that they do not see anything odd in the logs from that day.
Fernand
Active Member
Since figuring out the best weighting for the way
I want to drive MY car, my (infrequent but still real)
crazy "leaps" have ceased. I can't speak for
anyone else's, but in my case dropping out of AS
was what caused all those unpleasant moments.
Almost always due to movement of the wheel,
though there have also been very rare situations
where NOA disengaged without any reason I could
see.
IMHO there needs to be a better way to prevent
unintentional dropping out of AP into TACC alone.
Retention of TACC makes it seem like AS is active.
That fools the driver, until being rudely shown that
(surprise!) the %@#$#&&* car isn't steering at all.
Driving in manual is great. Driving in AP or NOA is
great. Being in manual thinking you're in AP is bad.
Being in TACC only, thinking you're in AS, barreling
along, or even merrily accelerating, that is the worst.
By the time I reacted I couldn't even be sure how it
happened, and so I thought the AP malfunctioned.
I've learned to keep a corner of my eye on that part
of the display, and treat it like a critical vital sign.
And BTW ... Most experienced Tesla drivers tap up
(out of auto) before entering very tricky stretches.
Taking some risk, testing AP beyond its previous limits,
that's a reasonable thing, if done carefully. But the folks
who are just blindly pushing it, only to come back and
bitch about how the automation isn't perfect and Elon
Musk is a fraud ... that's not rational.
.
I want to drive MY car, my (infrequent but still real)
crazy "leaps" have ceased. I can't speak for
anyone else's, but in my case dropping out of AS
was what caused all those unpleasant moments.
Almost always due to movement of the wheel,
though there have also been very rare situations
where NOA disengaged without any reason I could
see.
IMHO there needs to be a better way to prevent
unintentional dropping out of AP into TACC alone.
Retention of TACC makes it seem like AS is active.
That fools the driver, until being rudely shown that
(surprise!) the %@#$#&&* car isn't steering at all.
Driving in manual is great. Driving in AP or NOA is
great. Being in manual thinking you're in AP is bad.
Being in TACC only, thinking you're in AS, barreling
along, or even merrily accelerating, that is the worst.
By the time I reacted I couldn't even be sure how it
happened, and so I thought the AP malfunctioned.
I've learned to keep a corner of my eye on that part
of the display, and treat it like a critical vital sign.
And BTW ... Most experienced Tesla drivers tap up
(out of auto) before entering very tricky stretches.
Taking some risk, testing AP beyond its previous limits,
that's a reasonable thing, if done carefully. But the folks
who are just blindly pushing it, only to come back and
bitch about how the automation isn't perfect and Elon
Musk is a fraud ... that's not rational.
.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Maybe it would be good if they made this an option; an option for steering input to cancel both Autosteer & TACC. However, the downside is it would lead to unexpected slowing with a steering correction and that may be why they don't have it as an option. Personally I would prefer it as typically when I take over steering I'm also expecting to take over "throttle" position as well.
I do think it can catch people by surprise.
Fernand
Active Member
Thanks. I've been driving my Nicky for 8 months. I design real-time controls for a living. Of course I've tried all sorts of positions. But I'm not into predestination or moral purity. I couldn't care less about how things "should" be. My house if full of modified equipment. I'm not going to stand on my head to drive a $50k car.
Tesla's method for detecting driver engagement is not bad, but it's a temporary kludge, and we all know it.
It's not adjustable, and it does not work well enough to fit all users, all body shapes, all nervous systems. And IMHO it introduces a significant new risk, as I've detailed. I don't think this topic should be silenced. I'm taking time on this because I think it's important. All the more so for Tesla, since it makes the AP look wonkier than it is.
By trial and error, rather than crudely defeating the nag, cramming oranges or hanging socks full of coins, I've tweaked it to the most comfortable least risk compromise for me.
In the absence of (sorely needed) software adjustment, those of us who need to, can mechanically tune the sensitivity of the torque detection for any given version of the software, at the cost of a slight pull to the side in manual mode. Drives fine. Of course it's another absurd and unwelcome layer of kludge, and I sure do expect Tesla to make it unnecessary in time.
.
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Dinoraptor101
Dinoraptor101
I don't understand what are we talking about here anymore the point of LEVEL 2 Autonomous driving IS to have driver intervention and for the autonomous system to rely fully and learn from the driver not the other way around. those who expect LEVEL 3 or above behaviors of the current autonomy should get educated on what each level is before embarking on expectations outside of the current design.
You're correct, it's not. Now that I've owned this car for just shy of a year, I don't believe, on whole, it's improved at all. I think there are a lot of fanboys and fangirls out there that are willfully oblivious to the amount of driver intervention required. Assuming a good driver in a non-automated car. They are actively in control of the car 100% of the time. That is stress. On NoA, granted, you aren't in active control of the car much of the time. However, 1) when you are it's a major corrective action and 2) for that moment it is more stressful than the, aforementioned, good driver that never winds up between the rock and the hard place.