Just email your service center at this point. I have my "normal guy" at my service center, but I've been going there for over 2 years. That may or may not happen at yours. Again, I suggest getting confirmation of receipt..
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Double vision (ghosting) at night through windshield?
- Thread starter rmiggins
- Start date
tedsla
Mobile Member
I experience the ghosting in the center third top-to-bottom of the windshield. The more disturbing thing is our MX has optical aberrations in a couple of spots like about 8" below the mirror measured along the glass. I find this nauseating when turning to the right and have to look through it as the car turns. Taking the car in to have this addressed. I am not sure I the windshield replaced until they can address both issues.
DuplexDianne
Member
ernies
Member
Received a note from Tesla SC rep that Tesla is aware of the issues: "I have put a note in your file regarding the windshield ghosting. Tesla is aware and we are working with our supplier to fine tune the design of the windshield to reduce the frequency at which this is occurring."
I don't know what this means:
I don't know what this means:
- replacement
- new windshields for newer vehicles will have "less problems"?
Colby Boles
Member
My big concern with the ghosting problem is that to me it seems like a fundamental design flaw that there are very few ways to fix. The ghosting depends on these factors:
* Position of object relative to observer -> no control over this
* Observer location relative to windshield -> no much adjustability here
* Index of refraction of glass -> hard to make lower
* Thickness of glass -> thinner would be better, but challenging to keep strength at this size (Ford and Corning Introduce Industry-First Gorilla Glass Hybrid Windshield Technology on All-New Ford GT Supercar | Ford Media Center)
* Angle of windshield -> designed in to the shape of the car for drag and aesthetics
The only other thing I could think of that would work is to put a series of coatings on the glass to gradient the index of refraction back to 1 or perhaps an AR coating on the inside to reduce internal reflections back into the glass. Thoughts?
Apparently this has also been an issue with Priuses:
2011 Prius - Windshield triples light source images
* Position of object relative to observer -> no control over this
* Observer location relative to windshield -> no much adjustability here
* Index of refraction of glass -> hard to make lower
* Thickness of glass -> thinner would be better, but challenging to keep strength at this size (Ford and Corning Introduce Industry-First Gorilla Glass Hybrid Windshield Technology on All-New Ford GT Supercar | Ford Media Center)
* Angle of windshield -> designed in to the shape of the car for drag and aesthetics
The only other thing I could think of that would work is to put a series of coatings on the glass to gradient the index of refraction back to 1 or perhaps an AR coating on the inside to reduce internal reflections back into the glass. Thoughts?
Apparently this has also been an issue with Priuses:
2011 Prius - Windshield triples light source images
Actually, I don't believe it's a design flaw, but rather due to manufacturing difficulties. Why else is the problem intermittent, some folks clearly have ghost-free windshields.
It's hard to make a large pane of glass smooth and consistent. It's even harder to add additional layers, while keeping that same consistency. My WAG is that the problem is with the layers not being bonded together well enough. Maybe the glass hadn't cured long enough or maybe the glass was subjected to stresses during manufacturing. Whatever it is, I'm sure they'll sort it out. Remember, this is also the first windshields coming from a new line in Lima, Peru. They too can have new-line issues.
Colby Boles
Member
I agree that there can be additional defects in glass which create distortions and inconsistencies, but fundamentally you get problems like this whenever you look through any piece of glass of appreciable thickness at angles far from the surface normal. Assuming there is a PVB interlayer, it should have an index of refraction very close to that of the glass and not contribute any additional problems.
I talked to the service manager at the SC about this and he said that some windshields did in fact have varying thickness problems creating regional distortions and had to be replaced, but he could see that mine did not. I'm skeptical that there are any windshields that do not have the basic problem of multiple images in the vertical axis. The physics of it just make sense, and other cars with very sloped windshields also experience the same problem. I can even see the issue in the Model S loaner I have, but the spacing of the images is much tighter and so it is not very bothersome. My guess would be that this windshield has less slope, is thinner, and I sit lower in the car so I don't end up looking through the glass at such a grazing angle.
I don't doubt that some people don't notice or aren't bothered by it, but that can be explainable by their height (eye position, higher = more grazing gaze of windshield = worse), sunglasses (polarization could attenuate certain reflections), and visual acuity (poor eyesight at a distance = lower contrast = harder to see additional images that are less bright or distinguish them from the primary image)
Once I get our car back from the SC in a week or so (fingers crossed), I'll try to take some HDR photos in the dark using a horizontal laser line to show exactly what spacings the images are forming at.
If anyone in the Bay Area thinks their MX doesn't have this problem, I would love to take a look, eat my words, and pursue getting a replacement windshield for my car
.
I talked to the service manager at the SC about this and he said that some windshields did in fact have varying thickness problems creating regional distortions and had to be replaced, but he could see that mine did not. I'm skeptical that there are any windshields that do not have the basic problem of multiple images in the vertical axis. The physics of it just make sense, and other cars with very sloped windshields also experience the same problem. I can even see the issue in the Model S loaner I have, but the spacing of the images is much tighter and so it is not very bothersome. My guess would be that this windshield has less slope, is thinner, and I sit lower in the car so I don't end up looking through the glass at such a grazing angle.
I don't doubt that some people don't notice or aren't bothered by it, but that can be explainable by their height (eye position, higher = more grazing gaze of windshield = worse), sunglasses (polarization could attenuate certain reflections), and visual acuity (poor eyesight at a distance = lower contrast = harder to see additional images that are less bright or distinguish them from the primary image)
Once I get our car back from the SC in a week or so (fingers crossed), I'll try to take some HDR photos in the dark using a horizontal laser line to show exactly what spacings the images are forming at.
If anyone in the Bay Area thinks their MX doesn't have this problem, I would love to take a look, eat my words, and pursue getting a replacement windshield for my car
.
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EV-lutioin
Active Member
Too funny, I called the Rocklin, CA service center about ghosting and the service rep said, "Double images, ghosting? No one has mentioned that before, and I don't have any service bulletins about it.... first I have heard of it." Jeez, maybe they should read these forums from time to time.
GoCanes
Member
Last night, I drove my X (VIN 29XX, 4/2016 build date) at night for the first time (we took delivery 3 days ago). No ghosting or distortions at all. I'm tall (6'2"), so I bobbed my head up & down to see if it's a question of eye level - but everything was very clear.
EV-lutioin
Active Member
Interesting that we have a very similar VINs and build dates, but my windshield has pronounced ghosting. I noticed that despite our similar VINS, you took delivery 3 weeks later. Perhaps they stopped installing the flawed windshields sometime in April.
EV-lutioin
Active Member
Sorry if someone has already mentioned this in this thread, but has anyone had their windshield replaced by Tesla due to ghosting? The Rocklin Service Center is acting like I am the only MX owner that has ever mentioned this issue... sigh...
goneskiian
Active Member
They have...
@Jeff McClure said he had an appointment scheduled for May 3rd for a replacement but never reported back.
I have bad ghosting in my windshield too. My build date is May and my vin is 300x. No idea if any of these numbers uniquely identify the windshield manufacturer and/or date but this is what I see in the corner of my windshield. Anyone know if there's anything to interpret from these numbers printed on the glass?
Hmm according to this site the Dot number and the M number might be interesting to track. Anybody that doesn't have the ghosting issue with their windshields willing to post what their dot and m numbers are?
Car Windshield Markings: names, sample images, meaning
Car Windshield Markings: names, sample images, meaning
EV-lutioin
Active Member
As I read it, the M number and DOT number should be the same on all MX windshields. The only number that looks like it could be unique to the batch and date of production is the number on the very bottom and the two digit number after the dots. (All the other numbers appear to be standardized numbers that identify the type of glass, the manufacturer etc.)
"According to this site, you may see the month and year of production, possibly at the bottom of the windshield marking."
My windshield, which has pronounced ghosting at night, has the same numbers as yours except the two digit number after the three dots on the center/right. My number is 16, yours is 15. Interestingly, I have only 2 dots and you have three. Hopefully, we can crack the code on this!!
EV-lutioin
Active Member
Is it possible the dots indicate the month? 2 dots = February, 3 dots = March etc. So 4 dots and 15 = April 2015
ccutrer
Active Member
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