Drive unit replacement - getting better?

[vgrinshpun]

CR indicates requiring a minimum of 100 responses in order to publish the data for any model in any model year.

"Our sample sizes tend to track quite closely with market sales. Individual sample sizes vary from year to year and range from a hundred to several thousand for the more popular models."

The survey is only open to subscribers of either the magazine or the website, as are the results.

Their survey is scientifically designed by experts and they consider it to be both valid and reliable in the data and results.

So it's hard to argue with science and the facts--tesla DU problems are really very minor and insignificant, if they even exist at all. If it were otherwise the CR survey and reports would have clearly identified it--since they didn't it's not an issue.

While we agree on the solid science behind CR data, I would like to caution against calling DU problems insignificant, leave along non-existent. Let's try not to exaggerate. The data clearly show that there is small but statistically significant quantity of cars that have experienced drive unit problems (my P85+ included), however the overall rate of these problems is to small to either present financial problem for the Company, or warrant recommending against buying the car - after all Model S is CR overall top pick second year running.

 

[cwerdna]

Right. It's just the batteries that die prematurely, with a manufacturer that seems not to care. Other than that, the Leaf is an exemplar of EVs. (Not.)

No they do not "die prematurely". I'd wager there have been FAR fewer Leaf packs replaced for failure of either the modules or anything internal to the pack than their have been for Model S pack replacements. The former are almost unheard of. (And, no I'm not talking about for degradation. See below.)

That said, they have DEGRADED much more than we were led to believe via statements in videos and printed materials. They didn't DIE. They still work. The car still runs fine. They just happen to have much more capacity loss than we expected and significantly reduced range autonomy.

And yes, they did sorta care, after noise from Phoenicians w/badly degraded batteries in the local news there, Tony Williams' range test and later we found out, there was apparently a class action lawsuit going on, in parallel. Unfortunately, the Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 2012 LEAF - My Nissan Leaf Forum will not help many folks. They did come out with a "lizard" battery (Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement - My Nissan Leaf Forum) but we have no idea how much more heat resistant it is.

And '16 Leaf SV and SL will have an 8 year/100K capacity battery warranty, instead of 5 years/60K.

 

[rxlawdude]

No they do not "die prematurely". I'd wager there have been FAR fewer Leaf packs replaced for failure of either the modules or anything internal to the pack than their have been for Model S pack replacements. The former are almost unheard of. (And, no I'm not talking about for degradation. See below.)

That said, they have DEGRADED much more than we were led to believe via statements in videos and printed materials. They didn't DIE. They still work. The car still runs fine. They just happen to have much more capacity loss than we expected and significantly reduced range autonomy.

And yes, they did sorta care, after noise from Phoenicians w/badly degraded batteries in the local news there, Tony Williams' range test and later we found out, there was apparently a class action lawsuit going on, in parallel. Unfortunately, the Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 2012 LEAF - My Nissan Leaf Forum will not help many folks. They did come out with a "lizard" battery (Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement - My Nissan Leaf Forum) but we have no idea how much more heat resistant it is.

And '16 Leaf SV and SL will have an 8 year/100K capacity battery warranty, instead of 5 years/60K.

Point taken. Though it makes the car almost useless for its designed purpose. And there were indeed failures in the desert.

 

[bwa]

Point taken. Though it makes the car almost useless for its designed purpose. And there were indeed failures in the desert.

These EV batteries can't take high heat, and Tesla has a/c (and heater) for their EV battery and Leaf does not. Simple design choice.


The "axial load on radial ball bearings" comment confirms someone else thinks the same thing I thought when I looked at my first Tesla sled: the motor is rotational, but the car and axle flex in all sorts of planes and angles. I know, because that's what happens to me and my car whenever I drive Highway 17 Santa Cruz -> San Jose in the morning, and heck a little in rush hour coming home too via Hwy 17, Summit Rd & Old San Jose-Soquel Road.

The transfer from motor to axle may need some real work by Tesla. I will be interested to see:

* Gear change, for higher half of speed range
* Transmission, to handle the gear shift without shaking

and

* Some sort of mechanical flexibility

Maybe a different ball bearing design?

It occurs to me they may be testing lots of designs.

Another design I thought of was have no separate motor from the axles: axle would be shaft & body would be housing. Only the axle bearings would exist; no extra motor bearings. This might cause its own problems but it's an idea.

 

[cwerdna]

And there were indeed failures in the desert.

Source?

 

[dhanson865]

First, it is Consumer Reports (CR), not CU (Consumer ????).

About Us | Consumers Union

Consumers Union is the policy and action division of Consumer Reports. We work with our million plus activists to pass consumer protection laws in states and in Congress. We hammer corporations that do wrong by their customers, and encourage companies that are heading in the right direction.

CU and CR are both basically CR but it does confuse some. I'm not the biggest fan of CR/CU but I know enough about them to give you that heads up.

 

[BozieBeMe2]

To help balance out the nature of the poll, which I understand as' Motor Failures", I believe you should include ALL cars.
Otherwise all you will get are all failures based on quarters and years?
This poll will help drill down to those drive unit failures, from a certain time frame for sure.
To know the percentages of TOTAL failures you will need a total overall count,
Good versus bad.
To not include all units, this information isn't about Tesla improving on failures, just the probably time frame those motors were being built.

 

[mspohr]

To help balance out the nature of the poll, which I understand as' Motor Failures", I believe you should include ALL cars.
Otherwise all you will get are all failures based on quarters and years?
This poll will help drill down to those drive unit failures, from a certain time frame for sure.
To know the percentages of TOTAL failures you will need a total overall count,
Good versus bad.
To not include all units, this information isn't about Tesla improving on failures, just the probably time frame those motors were being built.

The limits of this site mean that you will never get 100% on any question. The purpose of this survey was to see if the relative number of replacements was changing over time. I think it's clear that the high number of replacements for cars made in 2013 has declined to next to nothing for 2015. I conclude that the problem has veen corrected.

 

[Ugliest1]

I just had my drive unit replaced at 55,000km (Dec 2013 build). For the past several months there has been a small "thunk" when shifting into regen. There has also been a kind of more-than-faint-but-less-than-loud electric whine (I don't know if that's the "milling noise" that people talk about). No noticeable change in performance that I could detect. I checked with Service in November 2015 and they said the unit was operating within parameters, but we set up an appointment for earlier this week to check it more thoroughly. From my perspective it didn't seem to affect anything other than, well, a thunk and whining.

At the appointment this week Service replaced the drive unit and will ship my old one to Fremont for examination. The new one... wow. Silent. It's a revision Q if that means anything and if I'm reading the part # correctly: ASY,P-TRAIN,MEC,COMPLETE,RC (1002633-00-Q)

 

[Rama]

I just had my front drive unit replace (70D) yesterday. I see that I'm the only one who's car was built 2Q 2015 or later. I wonder if the poll has gone dead or is the problem pretty rare nowadays? I will note that my 70D was one of the very first off the line, no excuse of course. The unit started making some odd sounds under heavy acceleration. I had less than 10k miles on it.

 

[mspohr]

I just had my front drive unit replace (70D) yesterday. I see that I'm the only one who's car was built 2Q 2015 or later. I wonder if the poll has gone dead or is the problem pretty rare nowadays? I will note that my 70D was one of the very first off the line, no excuse of course. The unit started making some odd sounds under heavy acceleration. I had less than 10k miles on it.

Haven't heard of front drive replacement. Hopefully this is not the start of a trend.

 

[Rama]

Haven't heard of front drive replacement.

Neither had the Tesla tech. When I took him for a test drive so he could hear the sound his reaction was "never heard that before".

 

[RiC0MD]

Q2 2015, 85D, rear motor replaced before 3k, buzzing noise at 70-75mph, tech figured it was a bad bearing, but they replaced the entire unit just to be safe.

 

[yobigd20]

Not dead yet. My 5th drive unit is scheduled to be put in in a few weeks. Same crap milling noise all over again.

 

[Arcam]

Brand new demo vehicle (85D) with dreadful whine from the DU(s) at 45 - 50 MPH, I took the vehicle on an extended demo run and picked it up with 18 miles on the clock (drive was near silent) and returned it with nearly 300 miles on it the next day with the whine, dealer confirmed it is an issue but would not tell me if the DU will be replaced as it is still with service and it is not my vehicle.

 

[qwk]

Not dead yet. My 5th drive unit is scheduled to be put in in a few weeks. Same crap milling noise all over again.

How long do your DU's go until the milling noise starts? Do you also get the drone at highway speeds?

 

[Thumper]

VIN 23** produced late Q4 2012, 30K miles. No problems at all thus far.

 

[yobigd20]

How long do your DU's go until the milling noise starts? Do you also get the drone at highway speeds?

usually about 15k before the milling noise starts. this last one started at about 7k miles despite it being a brand new unit (not remanufactured). i usually just keep driving on it until it gets really loud and annoying. if went in to get it swapped as soon as I hear the milling noise starting i'd probably be on my 8th or 9th DU by now lol

i dont think i have experienced any highway drone hum.

 

[Thomas Allen]

It appears that everyone's replacement has been at no charge. Does anyone know what the out of warranty replacement cost would be?

 

[sorka]

P85DL with 20K miles and original drive units. Not strange noises except the paddle like sound that started last month that was fixed by replacing/adjusting the front motor mounts so not a DU issue directly.