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Ear pain/Pressure help
- Thread starter justobuf
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- sound proofing
coselectric
Member
I adjusted it to the point that the envelope cannot be removed. It's not far past the point where the envelope-can-be-removed-with-light-friction point. I knew I had it all balanced because all four stops transitioned together from the light-friction point to the cannot-be-removed point with the same number of counter clockwise quarter turns.
I didn't notice the latch struggle at any point, but I wasn't paying that much attention tbh. I'd go out there and check it now but the snow storm that my carwash induced has finally hit, and I'm not opening the garage, LOL.
Same.
coselectric
Member
I agree with this characterization exactly. The buffeting is subsonic, for sure. More like a pressure wave like you feel (as someone else pointed out however many pages ago in this thread) when the cabin door is closed on an airplane. But happening once or twice a second. I found it very unpleasant, but my wife has struggled with vertigo and found it unbearable. Getting the rubber stops applying firm and balanced pressure to the liftgate seems to fix it, as Pianewman pointed out.
The boominess going over bumps is audible but VERY low frequency, like somewhere between a subwoofer and the LFE channel of a surround sound system. My guess is that it's a damped resonance of the suspension, body and liftgate, and by adjusting the liftgate you take it mostly out of that resonant system.
Dan888, you may be on to something. I don't have mine yet so I'll ask you: do you think the hinges are mounted via rubber supports or bushings of some kind? If so, these would be candidates for an aftermarket replacement part in polyurethane or a similar upgrade/fix. Such products are very common for automotive suspension bushings, sway bar mounts & links, strut & engine mounts etc. Perhaps something like that could be made to stiffen up and mitigate low-frequency resonance at the top of the hatch. I think all of the discussion about optimal adjustment of the latch and seal still applies, but that's only half the story if the hinge side is resonating.
coselectric
Member
Please?
Seriously, If they express any disdain for "internet" advice that you're bringing them, I'm afraid you'd be better of making the adjustments yourself. I wouldn't want anyone "practicing" on my car!
Test drove a Mach-E today. It also had hatch buffeting, though no body boom. At least, I didn’t hear it on the nice roads near the dealer.
What is so hard about properly adjusting a hatch at the factory..!?
To be fair, these vehicles did just hit the dealer lots a few days ago..
What is so hard about properly adjusting a hatch at the factory..!?
To be fair, these vehicles did just hit the dealer lots a few days ago..
coselectric
Member
Seems like many vehicles from different manufacturers have had similar problems over the years.
https://www.autoguide.com/auto-news...suvs-and-no-one-seems-to-have-a-solution.html
Car Sickness: Drivers Say Their GM SUV Is Making Them Sick | wfmynews2.com
Jeep Wrangler Cabin Pressure Issue (Making ears pop WTF!)
Wind Buffeting (Pulsing) Sound with Windows Closed - AcuraZine - Acura Enthusiast Community
Tesla even had the same issue on the Model S eight years ago.
Solution to pressure buffeting issue in some cars
At least the Teslas can be adjusted. Porsche owners have had to cobble together solutions using materials from Home Depot to fix the liftgate buffeting on their vehicles.
SOLUTION to Cayman in-cabin buffeting / pressure...
So they said 3 total employees drove it and “could not reproduce it”
I had given them a link to the thread and they said that there was a lot of opinions on the internet but they needed to reproduce it themselves. Which I understand but sucks anyways.
I asked them to look at the hatch and they said it was within normal limits. they did fix a piece of the plastic liner that had popped out.
So now my options are to keep fussing with the hatch stops or just give up. I can’t imagine I’ll get anywhere with service but it is bothering my ears a lot and don’t feel like losing money on getting rid of the car. I doubt it qualifies for lemon since they can’t reproduce the issue.
I'm sorry to hear you didn't have any luck with the service center. I had that same experience and I'm still in the same position as you. Assuming it's not just the hatch buffeting that's bothering you, there isn't an easy fix. You could try getting different tires, and that might help you some. Or you could go with an after-market suspension kit, but that's even more money. No matter what, it will cost you money - either from aftermarket upgrades or from the loss on selling a new car.
I'm still wondering if every Y has this issue and only a few of us are sensitive enough to the sound that we can't take it. There are two other Model Y's within a block of my house, and a few more that I have seen at my kids' school drop-off. If we weren't in the middle of a pandemic, I would have gone on half a dozen ride-alongs by now, but I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable. Maybe in a few more months I can ask these other owners to take me for a ride so I can confirm that other Model Ys sound the same as mine.
Dan888
Member
It's hard to see but based on the size of the hinge knuckle at the pin I don't think there's a soft bushing in it. It seems like there's less movement near the hinge compared to the left/right most part of the upper tailgate. There is still some movement at the hinge and I think it's due to the elongated U-shaped geometry of the hinge arm, which is needed to avoid hitting the top glass.
I placed some 5 min epoxy putty on the frame and closed the tailgate to imprint the tailgate frame into the putty, then let it harden. (See pic) It definitely stiffened the tailgate, I couldn't push it down at all in that area. Unfortunately when I drove it didn't make any noticeable difference. I do still have some movement when I push down near the left/right taillights. Has anyone eliminated this completely?
I still believe it's the tailgate and plan to work on stiffening it since the booming goes away when I drive with the tailgate slightly open.
Now, that's clever. I think setting the catch lower to get the gasket to better seal + setting the 4 stops is the best solution to the buffeting. I suspect the neoprene modelyshelf may be the best solution to the boominess.
gundarx
Member
I second what @MY-Y says about the buffeting, at least for my car, making sure the catch is lowered (mine was already low but was able to adjust for a few more mm) and adjusting the 4 stops.
What was harder to address was the booming coming from the back. I ordered sheets of Noico from Amazon some time ago, and got to do this today:
Butyl sheets: https://amzn.to/2NH3sCK
PE foam sound deadener: https://amzn.to/3sC6qqY
roller: https://amzn.to/3q43IZA
I had been experimenting by putting very heavy books in the rear subtrunk area and noticed how weighing down that area reduced unwanted noise. I suspect that repeated contact with the foam board and the bottom of the semi-rigid subtrunk liner was producing a pounding noise. Weighing down the subtrunk likely reduced movement and unwanted banging and the additional mass also reduced noise.
This is the first time I've applied sound deadener to a car, but after repeatedly driving our Model 3 and the Y, it was clear that the Y produced too much noise from the back, even though I've already changed tires and to MPP comfort coilovers. I also have used the butyl sheets for my home theater to reduce vibrations in some aluminum shelves and window roller shade facia covers that would become distracting on loud movies, and have noticed the big improvements from using these sheets. I'll probably use extra sheets for my washer/dryer.
This is just DIY, so it's an amateur application, though I did my best to roll each sheet with multiple passes as well as I could; it's going to be a workout and would cost about $130 in amazon supplies. It took me about 3 hours to do all of these today.
First applying the thinner, but heavy butyl sheets. Need to use a roller with this. Wear gloves, otherwise butyl will stick to your fingers. Used scissors to cut the sheets, but you can also use a knife.
To determine what needed application and how much, I knocked each surface and listened for resonating noise. The metal portions I left alone for the butyl sheets were either sufficiently solid (ex. the diecast structures) or needed to be left exposed for fasteners or potentially ventilation (would not want to introduce further ear pressure issues). I also applied under the smaller sub trunk area (butyl + PE foam), which already has 2 strips of sound material from the factory, but there was still plenty of resonating noise; pretty sure Tesla did not want to expend too much material, time and add weight to the car (and get less range) for comfort improvements.
Afterwards I topped it with the PE foam which can simply be stuck on like a sticker; no roller involved. I made sure to especially apply this thoroughly in the subtrunk area as I suspect that's where most of the booming sound is coming from. As I was applying this and continued pounding the panels, I noticed less and less resonating noise, and the metal pieces were sounding much more substantial and solid.
After I took these photos I made a few incisions in the PE foam corners in the subtrunk area to relieve some pressure and allow the subtrunk to be inserted more flush. I probably over-applied and had overlapping PE foam which caused the subtrunk liner to crease a bit after I was done; might revisit that and cut out the overlapping foam another day.
Applying just 2 sheets of butyl to the frame made a surprising sound difference on what is a very rigid metal frame; made this short video clip:
After a good drive and deliberately driving over rough patches (potholes, rutted portions of road, road reflectors), there's a significant improvement in reduced noise from the back. I'm very happy with the outcome. Can focus more on driving and driving fast than always minding the large increase in noise that usually comes with it.
What was harder to address was the booming coming from the back. I ordered sheets of Noico from Amazon some time ago, and got to do this today:
Butyl sheets: https://amzn.to/2NH3sCK
PE foam sound deadener: https://amzn.to/3sC6qqY
roller: https://amzn.to/3q43IZA
I had been experimenting by putting very heavy books in the rear subtrunk area and noticed how weighing down that area reduced unwanted noise. I suspect that repeated contact with the foam board and the bottom of the semi-rigid subtrunk liner was producing a pounding noise. Weighing down the subtrunk likely reduced movement and unwanted banging and the additional mass also reduced noise.
This is the first time I've applied sound deadener to a car, but after repeatedly driving our Model 3 and the Y, it was clear that the Y produced too much noise from the back, even though I've already changed tires and to MPP comfort coilovers. I also have used the butyl sheets for my home theater to reduce vibrations in some aluminum shelves and window roller shade facia covers that would become distracting on loud movies, and have noticed the big improvements from using these sheets. I'll probably use extra sheets for my washer/dryer.
This is just DIY, so it's an amateur application, though I did my best to roll each sheet with multiple passes as well as I could; it's going to be a workout and would cost about $130 in amazon supplies. It took me about 3 hours to do all of these today.
First applying the thinner, but heavy butyl sheets. Need to use a roller with this. Wear gloves, otherwise butyl will stick to your fingers. Used scissors to cut the sheets, but you can also use a knife.
To determine what needed application and how much, I knocked each surface and listened for resonating noise. The metal portions I left alone for the butyl sheets were either sufficiently solid (ex. the diecast structures) or needed to be left exposed for fasteners or potentially ventilation (would not want to introduce further ear pressure issues). I also applied under the smaller sub trunk area (butyl + PE foam), which already has 2 strips of sound material from the factory, but there was still plenty of resonating noise; pretty sure Tesla did not want to expend too much material, time and add weight to the car (and get less range) for comfort improvements.
Afterwards I topped it with the PE foam which can simply be stuck on like a sticker; no roller involved. I made sure to especially apply this thoroughly in the subtrunk area as I suspect that's where most of the booming sound is coming from. As I was applying this and continued pounding the panels, I noticed less and less resonating noise, and the metal pieces were sounding much more substantial and solid.
After I took these photos I made a few incisions in the PE foam corners in the subtrunk area to relieve some pressure and allow the subtrunk to be inserted more flush. I probably over-applied and had overlapping PE foam which caused the subtrunk liner to crease a bit after I was done; might revisit that and cut out the overlapping foam another day.
Applying just 2 sheets of butyl to the frame made a surprising sound difference on what is a very rigid metal frame; made this short video clip:
After a good drive and deliberately driving over rough patches (potholes, rutted portions of road, road reflectors), there's a significant improvement in reduced noise from the back. I'm very happy with the outcome. Can focus more on driving and driving fast than always minding the large increase in noise that usually comes with it.
Prior to readjusting the 4 pads the last (and I hope FINAL) time, I exposed the catch (removed trunk gasket, popped out the plastic trim/cover) and attempted to adjust the catch. It was already in the lowest possible position, so I couldn't make any adjustment at all. So, I was limited to adjusting the pads.
My wife and I just returned from a 110 mile shopping trip, almost all DFW highway, with it's notorious uneven concrete. She was surprised when I asked her, "How are your ears?" Her reply? "I had completely forgotten there was an issue until you mentioned it. I guess it's gone."
I'd call that a success. We truly LOVE the car (especially 150kW Supercharging: 15 minutes to go from 28 miles to 192 miles range!!!) Looking forward to our first real road trip.
My wife and I just returned from a 110 mile shopping trip, almost all DFW highway, with it's notorious uneven concrete. She was surprised when I asked her, "How are your ears?" Her reply? "I had completely forgotten there was an issue until you mentioned it. I guess it's gone."
I'd call that a success. We truly LOVE the car (especially 150kW Supercharging: 15 minutes to go from 28 miles to 192 miles range!!!) Looking forward to our first real road trip.
gundarx
Member
I didn't reference any video or instructions- once you start with pulling the cover which has the catch up and slightly towards you, it will expose a few plastic fasteners for the subtrunk liner which you can remove with a flat tool or flathead screwdriver. From then on it's very straightforward on how the adjacent trim can be removed, mainly just lifting up. You'll realize most of the trim is held less secure than Tupperware lids.
Thank you very much.
but how to removing the trunk liner for model Y?
Can you give us a help video?
If you are ever in the Grapevine area, and are willing I'd love to take a ride-a-long with you in your Model Y (I have the perfect washboard street by my house). After dealing with this on my S, I specifically looked for it on the Model Y we drove and it was actually worse in many respects...been watching this thread closely as you guys guinea pig it (didn't fancy being the guinea pig this time around!).
Worst case we talk about our red Teslas for 30 mins!
Nice job regardless!
