Ear pain/Pressure help

[coselectric]

We have had our Model Y for just over a week, and we are experiencing the same things that others are here. Mainly (1) an irritating repetitive ear pressure when traveling at high speed, much like when one window is open and (2) a subsonic booming with some ear pressure when going over bumps.

I did adjust the rubber stops on the liftgate as per the excellent video shared a few pages back in this thread. Like others, I found that the two upper stops weren't making any contact, and the lower ones were barely making contact. After adjusting them using the envelope method, I'm happy to report that the pressure issues appear to be mostly gone when traveling at high speed. The booming when going over bumps at low speed is still there, and I don't have any idea what to do to improve that issue. It is disheartening, because my 2.5 year old Model 3 does not have this issue at all.

Dan888, thank you for sharing your experience with Tesla service. I have been wondering if it's worthwhile to take it into the Tesla SC to see if they can do better than I did with getting the liftgate to seat and seal properly. I guess I won't waste my time with them, and I'll mess with it a bit more. I am concerned about the seal around the hatch not fully sealing now that I have increased the rubber stop positions, but fortunately it doesn't rain much here in Colorado. I guess I'll find out how good the seal is the first time I wash the car.

 

[MY-Y]

I out soapy water on my gasket (soap stops it from beading) to see how well the gasket sealed. After seeing that it was barely touching, I turned the stops all of the way in, lowered the catch, and readjusted the bumpers. I had to push down on the lid to get it to close for a week or two as the gasket settled. This made it quieter than just adjusting the stops.

 

[Rshephorse]

FYI -- you don't need two people if you have "Watch for Tesla". I crawled in there, staged the paper, and hit the button.

Interestingly enough, the bottom bumpers needed to come out more.

So here's my question... how tight are y'all making your hatches? The top bumpers I backed out to the point where I can't really pull the envelope out. The bottom ones are tight, but I can tug hard enough and eventually pull the envelope out.

The latch definitely sounds like it's working to latch. How tight are you guys making yours?

This is the problem I ran into, leaking. I think the proper set up includes getting all stoppers in contact, but Then, screwing them all in as much as possible -but still have them all in contact. You don't want over-extended stoppers to cause the rear hatch to 'stand off' the car. There's even a possibility that if the hatch seal is really loose it could allow pressure variations outside the care through to the cabin.
My hatch seals performed much better after an application of silicone to the seal and car- this prevented water from wicking through [and kept the hatch from freezing closed in cold weather].

 

[Pianewman]

As a Mechanical Engineer my gut is to write off Tesla as being willing or able to fix this and figure it out on my own.

MY gut (larger than it should be!) tells me this isn't a TESLA problem, but your specific tech just didn't get it right.

ryanjeffords: I think we're all guessing at the solution, until Tesla releases a specific procedure. I'm no engineer, but it makes sense to me to only turn 1/2 turn at a time, which means opening/closing several times for each pad adjustment. I started with the bottom pads, and then gradually adjusted the upper pads until they're tight. I think the bottom pads are structurally more important.

Maybe Dan888 can confirm my theory?

 

[magicnote]

I thought I would post an update on my quest to solve this problem. I got the Y back from the Tesla service center about two weeks ago now, and as expected they didn't do anything to fix the pressure/booming problem. I can't really blame them, as they aren't set up to diagnose these kinds of sound pressure issues. That's something that Tesla needs to do at headquarters with a bunch of engineers and good diagnostic equipment. But it's disappointing that they didn't even give it a shot after they weren't able to hear/feel the issue. I haven't written off Tesla service completely, as my experiences with them have been mostly positive. But you do have to get lucky and get a good tech assigned to your problems that is willing to invest some time into finding solutions. That's becoming less and less likely these days given how swamped every service center is with the increasing volumes of Teslas being sold.

Re: hearing. I've dealt with many techs in the 45 years that I've owned cars. I have to say that sensitive hearing is rare amongst shop techs, as they're used to constant environmental noise. Virtually none of them wear hearing protection.

@Pianewman That's a good callout about the shop environments. It would be pretty heard to hear some subtle, or even not subtle, sound and pressure issues if you are stepping out of a noisy shop to go for a test ride. One thing I have noticed is that the problem is most noticeable on moderately rough roads. On smooth roads, most people won't hear the booming unless they are particularly sensitive to it. And on really rough roads, there car is getting knocked around so much that it's hard to distinguish the booming from other general noise. It's on the moderately rough roads that the issue is the most annoying, and those kinds of roads didn't exist near the service center. We were either on smooth roads, or trying to drive over the center line road dots to create a rough ride. If I decide to let Tesla try to solve this problem, I will take it to a different service center.

I'm at 2200 miles. My son and I checked the 4 rubber hatch pads yesterday, closing the hatch on long strips of paper, between the pads and their resting points. I was surprised that only the 2 side pads were engaged, and the 2 farthest from the hinge weren't touching at all. We turned all of them in, adjusted the 2 farthest away from the hinge until they fully engaged, and then gradually turned the side pads until they engaged, w/o lifting the farthest pads (I hope this makes sense.) So, I think I've got all 4 pads uniformly supporting the hatch.

When using the paper strips to check the bottom pads, you need 2 people. You have to check it from the inside, so the strip of paper doesn't get caught by the rubber seal around the hatch. I didn't do this the first time I adjusted the pads a month ago, thought the pads were engaging, but it turned out the the rubber seal fooled me.

It seems like there is a consensus in this thread that we have two separate issues - hatch buffeting and low-frequency booming. I don't think the buffeting is the issue for me, but I will stay on top that as well. Thanks for the suggestion of having 2 people to check the stoppers. It was way faster to have my son sit inside in the back to test the lower pads while I tested the side pads from the outside. I'm going to keep the stoppers extended just enough to stop the paper from being pulled out, as that seems to be the best balance of keeping the hatch from moving while also making a tight seal with the rubber gasket.

Not ideal but just like with a subwoofer in your home theater system, it's often hard to pin point really low frequencies with your ears. Having someone crawl around may help you identify where it is coming from.

It's interesting that you used the subwoofer analogy. The discomfort that I am feeling from the low frequency booming is very much like listening to a badly tuned or defective subwoofer.

You can improve on the noise and ride comfort by changing tires, and the last step is probably with aftermarket coilovers.

@gundarx Those are two expensive options to test out noise reduction. But I'm bothered enough by the low-frequency booming that I went for the new tire option to start. One of the reasons we bought the Y in the first place was so we could have an AWD to take up to the mountains so the kids could have some time in the snow to help alleviate pandemic-lockdown boredom. The stock all-season Continentals were definitely not going to cut it. After reading some reviews in these forums and other tire review sites, I bought the Vredestein Quatrac Pros. On the drive back from the tire shop I noticed a substantial reduction of low-frequency booming. They had inflated the tires to 48 psi at the shop, so I lowered it to 42 psi and noticed an even bigger drop in the booming. It's definitely not gone, and still annoying, but I am now able to drive the car without losing my mind. We even took a two hour drive up to the mountains and I didn't have a headache at the end. On smooth roads, the ride is downright pleasant. That'a a pretty massive improvement from where I was when I took delivery of the car. The low-frequency booming is not gone, and it's still annoying enough that I might not keep the car, but I can at least tolerate it for the rest of our winter snow trips.

On a different topic, those Vredesteins did really well in the snow considering that they are not dedicated winter tires. Seattle got 10 inches of snow in 24 hours last week, which is practically apocalyptic for this city. The aren't enough snow plows to go around, so the side streets never get plowed. You just have to wait for the snow to melt. That gave me plenty of opportunities to test out the tires. They did really well in fresh snow and compacted snow. I only noticed slipping when it started to melt and get really slushy, but I saw plenty of Subarus struggling with that too. On our trip to the mountains, a lot of the local roads had compacted snow and ice, and the Vredesteins were solid. One Subaru in front of me (presumably on all-seasons and not winter tires) was fishtailing and slipping on one of those partly icy stretches while my Y on the Vredestiens never wandered from a straight line. So I'm pretty happy with the tire purchase, and I wish the stock tires on the Y were something closer to the Quatrac Pros.

We were away for the past week, so I couldn't do more testing of the tires on roads that I know. Now that the snow has all melted here, I'm going to drive around on my usual routes and see how the booming is with the new setup.

 

[gundarx]

I thought I would post an update on my quest to solve this problem. I got the Y back from the Tesla service center about two weeks ago now, and as expected they didn't do anything to fix the pressure/booming problem. I can't really blame them, as they aren't set up to diagnose these kinds of sound pressure issues. That's something that Tesla needs to do at headquarters with a bunch of engineers and good diagnostic equipment. But it's disappointing that they didn't even give it a shot after they weren't able to hear/feel the issue. I haven't written off Tesla service completely, as my experiences with them have been mostly positive. But you do have to get lucky and get a good tech assigned to your problems that is willing to invest some time into finding solutions. That's becoming less and less likely these days given how swamped every service center is with the increasing volumes of Teslas being sold.



@Pianewman That's a good callout about the shop environments. It would be pretty heard to hear some subtle, or even not subtle, sound and pressure issues if you are stepping out of a noisy shop to go for a test ride. One thing I have noticed is that the problem is most noticeable on moderately rough roads. On smooth roads, most people won't hear the booming unless they are particularly sensitive to it. And on really rough roads, there car is getting knocked around so much that it's hard to distinguish the booming from other general noise. It's on the moderately rough roads that the issue is the most annoying, and those kinds of roads didn't exist near the service center. We were either on smooth roads, or trying to drive over the center line road dots to create a rough ride. If I decide to let Tesla try to solve this problem, I will take it to a different service center.





It seems like there is a consensus in this thread that we have two separate issues - hatch buffeting and low-frequency booming. I don't think the buffeting is the issue for me, but I will stay on top that as well. Thanks for the suggestion of having 2 people to check the stoppers. It was way faster to have my son sit inside in the back to test the lower pads while I tested the side pads from the outside. I'm going to keep the stoppers extended just enough to stop the paper from being pulled out, as that seems to be the best balance of keeping the hatch from moving while also making a tight seal with the rubber gasket.



It's interesting that you used the subwoofer analogy. The discomfort that I am feeling from the low frequency booming is very much like listening to a badly tuned or defective subwoofer.



@gundarx Those are two expensive options to test out noise reduction. But I'm bothered enough by the low-frequency booming that I went for the new tire option to start. One of the reasons we bought the Y in the first place was so we could have an AWD to take up to the mountains so the kids could have some time in the snow to help alleviate pandemic-lockdown boredom. The stock all-season Continentals were definitely not going to cut it. After reading some reviews in these forums and other tire review sites, I bought the Vredestein Quatrac Pros. On the drive back from the tire shop I noticed a substantial reduction of low-frequency booming. They had inflated the tires to 48 psi at the shop, so I lowered it to 42 psi and noticed an even bigger drop in the booming. It's definitely not gone, and still annoying, but I am now able to drive the car without losing my mind. We even took a two hour drive up to the mountains and I didn't have a headache at the end. On smooth roads, the ride is downright pleasant. That'a a pretty massive improvement from where I was when I took delivery of the car. The low-frequency booming is not gone, and it's still annoying enough that I might not keep the car, but I can at least tolerate it for the rest of our winter snow trips.

On a different topic, those Vredesteins did really well in the snow considering that they are not dedicated winter tires. Seattle got 10 inches of snow in 24 hours last week, which is practically apocalyptic for this city. The aren't enough snow plows to go around, so the side streets never get plowed. You just have to wait for the snow to melt. That gave me plenty of opportunities to test out the tires. They did really well in fresh snow and compacted snow. I only noticed slipping when it started to melt and get really slushy, but I saw plenty of Subarus struggling with that too. On our trip to the mountains, a lot of the local roads had compacted snow and ice, and the Vredesteins were solid. One Subaru in front of me (presumably on all-seasons and not winter tires) was fishtailing and slipping on one of those partly icy stretches while my Y on the Vredestiens never wandered from a straight line. So I'm pretty happy with the tire purchase, and I wish the stock tires on the Y were something closer to the Quatrac Pros.

We were away for the past week, so I couldn't do more testing of the tires on roads that I know. Now that the snow has all melted here, I'm going to drive around on my usual routes and see how the booming is with the new setup.

@magicnote you may want to consider lowering the tire pressure even further to 41 psi, or slightly lower. On the 21" wheels, there is a significant reduction from 42 psi in resonant tire noise, likely from rear tires and being bounced by glass roof throughout cabin, on moderately rough road, especially at highway speeds.

If you're servicing in Renton-Seattle Tesla, you can take a short drive to S Carr Road for a sampling of uneven road surface: Google Maps .. I have a soured relationship with them and will take to Bellevue SC when necessary.

Had I not changed the tires and the suspension on my 2020 MY P, both of which have made significant improvements and turned a barely-acceptable and occasionally unsafe ride (summer tires in the cold, and very bumpy, lack of control over bumpy roads) to one I now look forward to driving each time, I too would have gotten rid of the car (and still keeping our Model 3 which has been great). My wife, knowing my frustration with the car was insisting we get the electric Porsche next.

 

[new-Instance]

I've noticed the low frequency booming is louder when two top stops by the lights have good contact with the pads. At this point all 4 stops have good contact, so the buffeting seems to be gone. Now, if I crank them all the way in to where the top two stops don't touch, the low frequency booming volume is noticeably less and is at a more tolerable level. But now the buffeting is there! Ugh!

 

[jstnumber73]

Does this happen with all Model Y's? I just took a MYP for a test drive and loved it but I wouldn't want to deal with this.

 

[Dan888]

MY gut (larger than it should be!) tells me this isn't a TESLA problem, but your specific tech just didn't get it right.

ryanjeffords: I think we're all guessing at the solution, until Tesla releases a specific procedure. I'm no engineer, but it makes sense to me to only turn 1/2 turn at a time, which means opening/closing several times for each pad adjustment. I started with the bottom pads, and then gradually adjusted the upper pads until they're tight. I think the bottom pads are structurally more important.

Maybe Dan888 can confirm my theory?

I think you’re right that it’s heavily dependent on the tech you get and I’m sure also how much experience they have with the issue. I think I’m more frustrated because the service center is an hour and 40 minutes away and with 2 young kids it’s even harder to make the trip.

I also agree it seems like an issue that Tesla Engineers will have to tackle if they’re going to solve it. With that being said I did some poking around and I was shocked to see how much vertical movement there is in the tailgate at the top hinges. I could push the tailgate up from the inside and down from the outside more than expected. Just considering the physics of the tailgate; it has the heavy glass of an SUV tailgate, but the disadvantage of being partly horizontal. When I get some time I plan to test some rubber stops for the tailgate at the top.

 

[DanDi58]

Does this happen with all Model Y's? I just took a MYP for a test drive and loved it but I wouldn't want to deal with this.

Perhaps, but some people seem to be more sensitive to it than others. I mean, my Mazda CX-5 has a bit of 'booming' under certain conditions but it's short-lived and doesn't bother me. I did 2 45 minute test drives of MY's - 1 Performance and 1 LR AWD and sensed none of this.

 

[coselectric]

So I took advantage of the warm weather over the past couple days and spent a bunch of time refining my adjustments of the liftgate stops. I'm pretty sure that previously I had the upper passenger side one adjusted out too far. Here is what I did to get a better adjustment:

1. Adjust all of them in (clockwise) until none of them would hold an envelope placed between them and the liftgate.
2. Adjust them all out until they all applied just a little holding pressure on the envelope. This required several liftgate open/close cycles, and for the stoppers on the bottom of the liftgate I climbed inside the back of the vehicle so I could place the envelope from the inside where it wouldn't contact the liftgate seal (I used the phone app to open/close the liftgate while back there). This is also an important step because if you adjust any one of them out to the point that it is applying firm pressure to the liftgate, it will influence the adjustments of the others and you will be iterating endlessly.
3. Once they were all at a uniform adjustment where each one held the envelope just slightly, I adjusted all of them one quarter turn out (counter clockwise) and re-tested.
4. I then iterated on step 3 until I reached the first position where they all held the envelope firmly. I then backed them all out one additional quarter turn counter clockwise for good measure.

I think the whole process took about 20-30 minutes and a lot of climbing in and out of the back of the vehicle. Watch your head when the liftgate comes down while you're back there!

So now that all four stops are contacting the liftgate firmly and with equal pressure, I'm happy to say that the high speed pulsating ear pressure is gone completely, and the booming when going over bumps is reduced by about 90%. I'm actually a little surprised about that last part, but also relieved. I told my wife that I adjusted it, and after her first drive in it she confirmed that it is no longer causing her any ear problems. This is such a relief because I was seriously wondering if we were going to be able to keep the vehicle before this adjustment. I feel like we're finally accepting our new Model Y into our family and starting to enjoy it after a rough first week. (My Model 3, BTW, continues to be perfect).

I am a bit baffled that these vehicles are escaping the factory this way. I also can imagine that many people will never make these relatively simple adjustments. As a loyal Tesla owner, I have to admit that Tesla really needs to address this situation by fixing their liftgate adjustments at the factory and training their service techs on how to make this adjustment for customers experiencing this problem.

 

[coselectric]

Forgot to add that I also washed the vehicle after adjusting the liftgate stops - dumped bucketfulls of water over the closed hatch and confirmed that there are no leaks. So it's good. And because I washed it, of course, the forecast changed and we're now looking at 4-8" of snow coming tomorrow night.

 

[polyphonic54]

Are you able to pull the envelope out with fairly low force, or does it really stick in place?

 

[magicnote]

So now that all four stops are contacting the liftgate firmly and with equal pressure, I'm happy to say that the high speed pulsating ear pressure is gone completely, and the booming when going over bumps is reduced by about 90%. I'm actually a little surprised about that last part, but also relieved. I told my wife that I adjusted it, and after her first drive in it she confirmed that it is no longer causing her any ear problems. This is such a relief because I was seriously wondering if we were going to be able to keep the vehicle before this adjustment. I feel like we're finally accepting our new Model Y into our family and starting to enjoy it after a rough first week. (My Model 3, BTW, continues to be perfect).

@coselectric I'm glad to hear that you have reduced the booming so significantly. I have made similar stop adjustments to yours to prevent the buffeting, although I think the buffeting was never the real issue for me. The problem I am still having is the booming as it was not reduced much (to my ears anyway) by the stop adjustments.

Side note - I'm envious of you and everyone else that held onto their old Model 3s. I wish I had kept mine instead of trading it in. It was perfect for me as well.

 

[magicnote]

@magicnote you may want to consider lowering the tire pressure even further to 41 psi, or slightly lower. On the 21" wheels, there is a significant reduction from 42 psi in resonant tire noise, likely from rear tires and being bounced by glass roof throughout cabin, on moderately rough road, especially at highway speeds.

If you're servicing in Renton-Seattle Tesla, you can take a short drive to S Carr Road for a sampling of uneven road surface: Google Maps .. I have a soured relationship with them and will take to Bellevue SC when necessary.

I am going to try to lower the tire pressure a bit more. There was a note on some tire site that said you had to maintain at least 42 psi to maintain the load rating. But I'm sure I will be fine a bit lower.

The Bellevue service center was the one that didn't have enough rough roads nearby. I used to go to a service center in SODO, but that seems to have closed and moved a few blocks away.

 

[Pianewman]

I used a single strip of plain copy paper when I adjusted my rubber pads. I could NOT remove them after adjustment. The buffeting has been reduced significantly.

PSI: Temps dropped, so my PSI went from 42 to 40 to 38. The low frequency rumbling decreased with the lower PSI. The car was serviced by Tesla yesterday, they raised the PSI to 44 (?). I immediately noticed the harsher ride, but steering "turn-in" was much sharper.

I honestly don't know if the load rating is significantly changed by dropping the PSI. The risk of rim damage probably increases a bit, and wh/m will increase, for sure.

I agree with the analysis on this thread that there are 3 areas of that are troublesome:
1) Hatch buffeting, mostly corrected by assuring the 4 pads are equally distributing the load.
2) Low-frequency grumbling from the HVAC in certain circumstances. (I hear it, but I'm not sure if every MY has this issue.)
3) Low-frequency grumbling that comes from the tire/suspension/frame. I think this aspect will be the hardest to overcome. (In another 25-30k miles, I'll be switching away from the ContiContactPros.)

 

[ryanjeffords]

So I took advantage of the warm weather over the past couple days and spent a bunch of time refining my adjustments of the liftgate stops. I'm pretty sure that previously I had the upper passenger side one adjusted out too far. Here is what I did to get a better adjustment:

1. Adjust all of them in (clockwise) until none of them would hold an envelope placed between them and the liftgate.
2. Adjust them all out until they all applied just a little holding pressure on the envelope. This required several liftgate open/close cycles, and for the stoppers on the bottom of the liftgate I climbed inside the back of the vehicle so I could place the envelope from the inside where it wouldn't contact the liftgate seal (I used the phone app to open/close the liftgate while back there). This is also an important step because if you adjust any one of them out to the point that it is applying firm pressure to the liftgate, it will influence the adjustments of the others and you will be iterating endlessly.
3. Once they were all at a uniform adjustment where each one held the envelope just slightly, I adjusted all of them one quarter turn out (counter clockwise) and re-tested.
4. I then iterated on step 3 until I reached the first position where they all held the envelope firmly. I then backed them all out one additional quarter turn counter clockwise for good measure.

I think the whole process took about 20-30 minutes and a lot of climbing in and out of the back of the vehicle. Watch your head when the liftgate comes down while you're back there!

So now that all four stops are contacting the liftgate firmly and with equal pressure, I'm happy to say that the high speed pulsating ear pressure is gone completely, and the booming when going over bumps is reduced by about 90%. I'm actually a little surprised about that last part, but also relieved. I told my wife that I adjusted it, and after her first drive in it she confirmed that it is no longer causing her any ear problems. This is such a relief because I was seriously wondering if we were going to be able to keep the vehicle before this adjustment. I feel like we're finally accepting our new Model Y into our family and starting to enjoy it after a rough first week. (My Model 3, BTW, continues to be perfect).

I am a bit baffled that these vehicles are escaping the factory this way. I also can imagine that many people will never make these relatively simple adjustments. As a loyal Tesla owner, I have to admit that Tesla really needs to address this situation by fixing their liftgate adjustments at the factory and training their service techs on how to make this adjustment for customers experiencing this problem.

Man, spot on. I had messed with the stoppers and experimented a bunch and I think my stoppers are backed out a bit too much now.

I'm going to do EXACTLY what you just mentioned and restart and make sure everything is balanced. I think our pressure issue is a lot better than when I got the car, but I need to follow the steps you outlined.

Question: when your hatch closes and latches...does it sound like it's struggling to latch? or does it make a more "confident" sound?

 

[Pianewman]

ryanjeffords: Mine is tight (hatch doesn't move when closed when I push down/lift up. The motor that pulls it closed? It sounds the same as any other car that I've heard.

The first time I adjusted the pads (a few weeks ago), I didn't get it right. Now I'm confident the hatch is stable.

 

[polyphonic54]

With regards to the body boom source, it seems like a smaller number of us is especially bothered by it. It is a bit lower in pitch than the buffeting.

I’ve been trying to find studies on low frequency hearing loss. We all lose our higher frequencies, but I wonder about the lows. Would we lose 20-40 Hz with age and use, or are some people especially insensitive to those frequencies by nature?

In general humans are much, much less sensitive to lows, but there must be some variation.

 

[MY-Y]

IMO, the buffeting is much lower in frequency (mostly subsonic). The low frequency boominess is easily picked up on my cell phone mic, and is around 25-45 Hz. I find the boominess suboptimal, and the buffetting unbearable. I'm glad I fixed the buffeting right away.