Eastern Canada Superchargers

[wayner]

Wasn't there also speculation about battery swaps for the semis?

 

[wayner]

If it were Dec 14 I would understand the pessimism and near anger in the thread but it's September 14th... I got a sunburn today and then went swimming. It's not like it's new years eve yet.

Check out the thread on the Levis supercharger for an example of the timelines. Construction work was first noted on July 5. It is now September 15 and it is still not completed - apparently some of the electrical contractors have been sent done to Georgia to help restore damage from Hurricane Irma.

 

[Duckjybe]

Wasn't there also speculation about battery swaps for the semis?

Now that could possibly make a whole lot of sense. With the money trucking companies could save on fuel (and eventually on drivers) it may be feasible to implement their own battery swap stations or private supercharging stations for high volume routes.

 

[Vawlkus]

There's a better idea for semis IMHO.

Currently, cars can't mount enough solar panels to use sunlight to fuel them. A semi truck trailer on the other hand DOES. While it's not a complete answer, if you build solar systems into trailers and couple them with electric semis you do a helluva lot to reduce fuel costs long term.

 

[SmartElectric]

Sorry, disagree (not dislike by the way). Solar on semi's is discussed on the thread related to the semi announcement elsewhere in this forum. The outcome was "not going to move the needle".

 

[Doug_G]

Semi trucks could use a "MegaCharger". They'll have much larger packs so wouldn't need to worry about cell charging rates.

 

[PLUS EV]

Yeah just from a logical standpoint, I don't see how a solar powered semi would work before a solar powered car. The semi might have 5x the surface area on its roof, but they also have like 10-20x the weight of a car.

I do think the semis could charge fairly quickly by having multiple separate battery packs. Imagine 10 Model S's plugged in and charging simultaneously like at a busy supercharger. But now imagine that all of those 10 battery packs are powering one semi.

 

[wayner]

I do think the semis could charge fairly quickly by having multiple separate battery packs. Imagine 10 Model S's plugged in and charging simultaneously like at a busy supercharger. But now imagine that all of those 10 battery packs are powering one semi.

And now multiply that by 20 so that you can charge 20 semis at once. You will need to run a 500kV line into the truckstop. Or put a truckstop at Pickering, Darlington, Tiverton, Niagara Falls, etc.

 

[rypalmer]

And now multiply that by 20 so that you can charge 20 semis at once. You will need to run a 500kV line into the truckstop. Or put a truckstop at Pickering, Darlington, Tiverton, Niagara Falls, etc.

Since the cost of distribution is factored into the end cost of electricity, this feels like a non-problem. We will build more infrastructure. It's the utility's problem.

 

[wayner]

Since the cost of distribution is factored into the end cost of electricity, this feels like a non-problem. We will build more infrastructure. It's the utility's problem.

Ryan - I am not so sure that is the case.

@mknox should know as he is a retired electrical utility executive. Here is what he posted in the chademo thread about EV charging at OnRoute sites:

Most sites are outside of municipalities and would be served by Hydro One Networks who have notoriously high rural delivery charges. In addition, the cost of "bringing in" power to these sites must be borne by the site owner (OnRoute) and cannot be spread into the rate-base (this is an OEB rule which makes sense if you think about it). In order to minimize those capital contributions toward infrastructure costs, they probably tried to minimize the amount of new electric utility infrastructure that needed to be built.

Keep in mind that a single 240 volt HPWC will have an electrical demand equivalent to about 4 homes, and a 10-stall Supercharger site usually has a 1 MW (1,000 kW) dedicated utility transformer supplying it, which is about what a 400 home subdivision (without electric cars!) would draw.

Now multiply that by 10 or 20 for charging 10 or 20 semis at once.

 

[rypalmer]

Ryan - I am not so sure that is the case.

@mknox should know as he is a retired electrical utility executive. Here is what he posted in the chademo thread about EV charging at OnRoute sites:

Now multiply that by 10 or 20 for charging 10 or 20 semis at once.

No problem. The power required to charge that many semis should be more than enough economic incentive to stretch high voltage distribution to just about anywhere.

 

[wayner]

Economic incentive for who? Tesla? Do we know what their pricing model will be for charging for semis? Especially go in an expensive electricty jurisdiction like Ontario. At places like highway truck stops they may have to be pulling a LOT of wire.

 

[rypalmer]

Economic incentive for who? Tesla? Do we know what their pricing model will be for charging for semis? Especially go in an expensive electricty jurisdiction like Ontario. At places like highway truck stops they may have to be pulling a LOT of wire.

For the utility to bring that type of service to a new area. How do you think high voltage service gets anywhere? The utility builds a business case around the utilization of the assets. Where there's sufficient demand, the infrastructure will follow.

 

[mrElbe]

And then they'll have to deal with the protesters who like electricity but object to transmission lines.

 

[Drone Flyer]

And then they'll have to deal with the protesters who like electricity but object to transmission lines.

They'll make it underground!

 

[mknox]

For the utility to bring that type of service to a new area. How do you think high voltage service gets anywhere? The utility builds a business case around the utilization of the assets. Where there's sufficient demand, the infrastructure will follow.

Sort of... the regulator requires that any developer wanting to electrically service their building (or whatever) is required to pay upfront for it in the form of a "capital contribution" to the utility. The utility is then required to perform an economic evaluation to determine what new revenues they will realize as a result of the new load, and then will offset this contribution in the form of a rebate based on "actual" consumption a year or so later. The utility itself does not make the business case.

If someone gambles on the "build it and they will come" model, and they don't come, it could be a very expensive proposition.

 

[Drone Flyer]

I guess then that because of the distance involved and the infrastructure required to get electricity to remote centres, it will only be a " Semi" of the current needed!

 

[sandpiper]

Sort of... the regulator requires that any developer wanting to electrically service their building (or whatever) is required to pay upfront for it in the form of a "capital contribution" to the utility. The utility is then required to perform an economic evaluation to determine what new revenues they will realize as a result of the new load, and then will offset this contribution in the form of a rebate based on "actual" consumption a year or so later. The utility itself does not make the business case.

If someone gambles on the "build it and they will come" model, and they don't come, it could be a very expensive proposition.

Semi-related... Have you heard anything about any effort to amend the laws around the charge-per-kwh or charge per minute issue?

The current system, of course, is completely absurd. The law, intended to ensure accurate measurements of product delivered, has the perverse effect of ensuring that the measurement of product delivered is completely inaccurate.

 

[Jim R]

What a misleading title! Eastern Canada Superchargers? Really? There are NO superchargers in Eastern Canada. NB, PEI, NS and Newfoundand and Labrador. No superchargers. What you probably mean is East of Toronto.

 

[SmartElectric]

Oh my, well, here I sit, typing this non-reply at 7PM Eastern Standard time in Toronto.
If Toronto isn't East, and isn't the center of the universe, where is it?