Electrify America general discussion

[avs007]

One thing it could be, is that unlike my previous 30 sessions, this one at Great Mall, it seemed you have to plug the car in first, then try to pay. It would always insta-fail if you try to pay first. The first few times, the app timed out, so that may be why I couldn't initiate from app, because when I plugged my car in afterwards, the machine would lock up. When I finally got it to work, I plugged the car in first then tapped my credit card. Nothing showed on screen but I heard the cooling turn on, and my car said it was charging.

It was wierd because previously I always swiped the app first, then plugged in. But at this location, swiping first resulted in the app instantly saying error. And tapping the machine first resulted in the machine instantly saying error. It did the same thing in Seattle at the start of the trip, But it worked fine at other locations. So inconsistent...

 

[generalmilk]

In Bay Area, you can also try EVgo. Equally sucks but at least you have more choice

 

[CapsEngineer]

Somehow, I doubt that the engineers who designed the charger thought that the charger needs to constantly run tests to see if someone stole the charging cables.

Then they have lousy reliability and test engineers. They should be specifying all manner of built-in-tests. This would include ones that check to make sure the handle can communicate with the rest of the system regardless of the reason for the failure.

They should also have built-in-tests that can be used during assembly and installation.

 

[Jeff N]

I have never gotten NFC to work on EA. It would always select a credit card from my wallet. I heard there are two NFC readers on the chargers, but I have never gotten the little grey one to work.

I use NFC infrequently, but for me it works at EA if I first open my Wallet app and select the EA-installed NFC “card”. I think you can also configure the Wallet app to auto-select a card to use but I don’t have that enabled and maybe you do.

 

[Jeff N]

One thing it could be, is that unlike my previous 30 sessions, this one at Great Mall, it seemed you have to plug the car in first, then try to pay. It would always insta-fail if you try to pay first. The first few times, the app timed out, so that may be why I couldn't initiate from app, because when I plugged my car in afterwards, the machine would lock up. When I finally got it to work, I plugged the car in first then tapped my credit card. Nothing showed on screen but I heard the cooling turn on, and my car said it was charging.

It was wierd because previously I always swiped the app first, then plugged in. But at this location, swiping first resulted in the app instantly saying error. And tapping the machine first resulted in the machine instantly saying error. It did the same thing in Seattle at the start of the trip, But it worked fine at other locations. So inconsistent...

Ah. Yes, EA tells everyone on the UI screen to plug the car in first and then initiate a charge when the payment screen comes up on the dispenser. They do this so they can first interrogate the car to look for Plug & Charge capability etc.

Some people have discovered that it can work by initiating first and then plugging in but perhaps that doesn’t work with certain types of their charging equipment?

 

[Mockingbird]

With all the complaining going on, someone tell me how Tesla detects when the charging cable at the Supercharger has been cut.

 

[MP3Mike]

With all the complaining going on, someone tell me how Tesla detects when the charging cable at the Supercharger has been cut.

The same ways EA could if they wanted to. Either by the the pilot line no longer registering the correct resistance or the temperature sensor no longer providing a signal. I'm sure there could be other ways as well.

 

[Earl]

With all the complaining going on, someone tell me how Tesla detects when the charging cable at the Supercharger has been cut.

A completely cut cable is easy to detect remotely, they won't get temperature or other telemetry signals from the connector.
As far as difficult things to detect that would impair charging, as I mentioned before: They have technicians constantly driving between Superchargers, testing them out and carrying equipment to do repairs if needed.
They generally swap out cables if the connectors are worn, before they become inoperable.
They also have high quality equipment well protected from the environment, behind fences. All that actually goes to the charging station is a very large cable. There's relatively little to be damaged and the last end of the cable has a connector with the part going to the charger circuitry behind the fence so it can be swapped out easily.

Having each charger be a stand-alone appliances standing out in the elements has got to be a lot more expensive and trouble-prone for EA and the CCS gang. The only advantage I can see with the appliance approach is that it enables cheaper installation of only 1 or 2 chargers at a site while Tesla's approach probably only makes sense for 4 or more chargers.

 

[STS-134]

They generally swap out cables if the connectors are worn, before they become inoperable.

EA's cable maintenance and connector design is comically bad. I was using the CHAdeMO connector on an EA station one time and I decided to see what would happen if I pushed the release button while the unit was charging (of course, it should be designed so that it does not allow you to disengage the lock, and it did not allow me to disengage the lock). All was good, right? Nope. The release button (or rather the mechanism behind the button) got stuck and when charging did stop, I pressed the button to release the connector and it absolutely refused to disengage (the mechanism behind the button was still stuck in the "pressed down" position and therefore pressing the button did absolutely nothing, and the connector lock was still engaged because it had been pressed down while charging was still in progress). I ended up having to whack the connector pretty hard multiple times and the mechanism behind the button finally popped up (I heard whatever spring loaded mechanism was behind the button and was gummed up to the extent that it didn't pop back up like it should have finally "click" right after I whacked the connector), allowing a press of the button to release the connector. Took me at least 2-3 minutes of alternately standing there trying to figure out what to do and whacking the release button and connector before it finally released. And if it didn't? I'd have probably been stuck there until EA could send a technician out to literally take apart the connector to get it to release.

 

[avs007]

The release button (or rather the mechanism behind the button) got stuck and when charging did stop, I pressed the button to release the connector and it absolutely refused to disengage (the mechanism behind the button was still stuck in the "pressed down" position

I was at an EA station in NorCal. The mechanical lock on the CCS handle on the 350kw charger I was using was busted. It would not lock at all. It would still charge, so I just made sure to stay close by. (The other 350kw charger was busted). This will be fixed soon, cus I stopped by this same charger a few days ago, and someone had cut both the cables off, on this charger.

 

[CapsEngineer]

I was at an EA station in NorCal. The mechanical lock on the CCS handle on the 350kw charger I was using was busted. It would not lock at all. It would still charge, so I just made sure to stay close by. (The other 350kw charger was busted). This will be fixed soon, cus I stopped by this same charger a few days ago, and someone had cut both the cables off, on this charger.

When I was using an EA charger, I pressed the button to try to reseat the adapter connection on my car and had this pop up in the screen

(sorry, I can’t get it to rotate)

I hadn’t seen that before and actually didn’t realize that was only a lock and it doesn’t, at least according to the car, stop charging.

 

[Mockingbird]

The same ways EA could if they wanted to. Either by the the pilot line no longer registering the correct resistance or the temperature sensor no longer providing a signal. I'm sure there could be other ways as well.

Are you saying for a fact that you know that Tesla does that?

 

[terranx]

Are you saying for a fact that you know that Tesla does that?

Probably, but who knows. What we do know is Tesla responds to cut cables much faster than EA, so they likely have some means of detecting cut cables. As everyone has noted, the temperature sensor alone would be an easy way to tell something is wrong.

I get you’re an electrify America fanboy, but let’s be real- in this regard they’re absolutely terrible.

 

[Mockingbird]

Probably, but who knows. What we do know is Tesla responds to cut cables much faster than EA, so they likely have some means of detecting cut cables. As everyone has noted, the temperature sensor alone would be an easy way to tell something is wrong.

I get you’re an electrify America fanboy, but let’s be real- in this regard they’re absolutely terrible.

So, in fact, you don’t know.

 

[drift]

So, in fact, you don’t know.

Does anyone know if the government settlement agreement with Volkswagen requires them to install a DCFC system that can actually charge electric vehicles in the long term or just install chargers until the required fine is met?

 

[Mockingbird]

Does anyone know if the government settlement agreement with Volkswagen requires them to install a DCFC system that can actually charge electric vehicles in the long term or just install chargers until the required fine is met?

The settlement doesn’t require Volkswagen to install DCFCs.

Volkswagen can use the money to install hydrogen refueling stations if it wants.

 

[Jeff N]

Does anyone know if the government settlement agreement with Volkswagen requires them to install a DCFC system that can actually charge electric vehicles in the long term or just install chargers until the required fine is met?

I vaguely recall that EA was going to specify performance targets in their contracts with regional maintenance and service providers. Service is supposedly funded and in the budget. I don’t know whether the claims or assumptions are true that repair problems we see are due primarily to parts supply chain problems or if something else is going on. In any case, VW would seem to be properly economically motivated to make EA successful as they need them in order to sell their own BEV cars in order to compete with Tesla.

 

[RayK]

In any case, VW would seem to be properly economically motivated to make EA successful as they need them in order to sell their own BEV cars in order to compete with Tesla.

That has been true earlier and probably will be for the near future, but Tesla has said that they are opening up the Supercharger network, in limited areas at first, to other non-Tesla vehicles. In the long term, that could put EA into a situation where they as less inclined to support their own network since there are, or will be, other options for VW owners (and others) to charge their vehicles. Teslas, those with CCS support, are in the best position at the moment to benefit from both charging networks, at least when they are working as they should be. I've used the EA system several times with my CHAdeMO adapter and only had problems once with a down station.

 

[Earl]

EA's cable maintenance and connector design is comically bad. I was using the CHAdeMO connector on an EA station one time and I decided to see what would happen if I pushed the release button while the unit was charging (of course, it should be designed so that it does not allow you to disengage the lock, and it did not allow me to disengage the lock). All was good, right? Nope. The release button (or rather the mechanism behind the button) got stuck and when charging did stop, I pressed the button to release the connector and it absolutely refused to disengage (the mechanism behind the button was still stuck in the "pressed down" position and therefore pressing the button did absolutely nothing, and the connector lock was still engaged because it had been pressed down while charging was still in progress). I ended up having to whack the connector pretty hard multiple times and the mechanism behind the button finally popped up (I heard whatever spring loaded mechanism was behind the button and was gummed up to the extent that it didn't pop back up like it should have finally "click" right after I whacked the connector), allowing a press of the button to release the connector. Took me at least 2-3 minutes of alternately standing there trying to figure out what to do and whacking the release button and connector before it finally released. And if it didn't? I'd have probably been stuck there until EA could send a technician out to literally take apart the connector to get it to release.

I've had similar experiences more than once.

 

[MP3Mike]

Video from Transport Evolved on charging system problems: