Elon Musk

[ohmman]

I think you may be making the same mistake a lot of people make when discussing wealthy people. Entrepreneur billionaires don't tend to hold a lot of cash on hand and their investments are not very diversified. A couple of articles
An entrepreneur who interviewed 21 billionaires says there's a common misconception about how the world's richest people spend their money

Why Elon Musk Is Cash Poor (For A Billionaire)

People who invest for a living are constantly moving money around and most take advantage of the games that have been set up like buying stocks on margin, shorting stocks, etc. But entrepreneurs made their wealth in a very different way and most have very little in the way of liquid assets.

It would actually be foolish for someone like Elon Musk or Tim Cook to cash out a substantial amount of their stock in their companies to invest elsewhere. They remain in control because they own enough stock to prevent a stockholder's coup and their return on their company stock is getting them more wealth building than almost any other investment they could make.

If you have a vast amount of stock you can borrow against it, but you need to pay that back eventually. That could work as an occasional thing, but it wouldn't work as a yearly ploy to pay your wealth taxes. They will eventually have to sell stock to pay the bank, diluting their holdings in the company.

When someone owns $50 billion in stock they can also live quite well selling a tiny amount of it every year. Few entrepreneur billionaires are tapping anywhere near 1% of their wealth every year. And the ones who are usually are doing charitable work with it.

If there was going to be a wealth tax I would hope there would be an exemption for self made entrepreneurial wealth. Hedge fund managers would whine about paying the tax, but it wouldn't really hurt the country if they had to pay such a tax.

I'm going off of survey and financial institution data, which shows that 25-40% of portfolios for HNWIs are in cash equivalents. Sure, there are exceptions. But I've got some familiarity with this topic and I can assure you that it's not a "mistake" than I'm making. I think you're confusing anecdote with data - the bright examples are "sticky" and color the bias.

The Wealth X Billionaire Census agrees. I'm absolutely open to data that doesn't align with these, but random examples aren't really demonstrative except to be indirectly misleading.

I think the mistake that you're making (since you've introduced that concept here) is that you're assuming that your "billionaire entrepreneur class" is representative of the group.

 

[wdolson]

I'm going off of survey and financial institution data, which shows that 25-40% of portfolios for HNWIs are in cash equivalents. Sure, there are exceptions. But I've got some familiarity with this topic and I can assure you that it's not a "mistake" than I'm making. I think you're confusing anecdote with data - the bright examples are "sticky" and color the bias.

The Wealth X Billionaire Census agrees. I'm absolutely open to data that doesn't align with these, but random examples aren't really demonstrative except to be indirectly misleading.

I think the mistake that you're making (since you've introduced that concept here) is that you're assuming that your "billionaire entrepreneur class" is representative of the group.

There are not that many entrepreneur billionaires. It's a lot easier to play financial games and make a pile of money than build a new tech company that does something nobody has done before, and survive to get big. But causing tech billionaires to lose the companies they built would be killing off one of the key engines of real economic growth in this country.

 

[banned-66611]

There are not that many entrepreneur billionaires. It's a lot easier to play financial games and make a pile of money than build a new tech company that does something nobody has done before, and survive to get big. But causing tech billionaires to lose the companies they built would be killing off one of the key engines of real economic growth in this country.

Musk was given $300,000 start-up money by his parents. Obviously most people do not have access to that kind of free money.

Musk doesn't make Tesla cars. He doesn't design them. He pays other people to do that. People who don't have $300,000 and family connections to get them started in life.

Obviously Musk brings some value to the table, but does he deserve to have more money than a person will ever need while others who do the actual work have inadequate healthcare and live payday to payday?

 

[GreenT]

Musk was given $300,000 start-up money by his parents. Obviously most people do not have access to that kind of free money.

Musk doesn't make Tesla cars. He doesn't design them. He pays other people to do that. People who don't have $300,000 and family connections to get them started in life.

Obviously Musk brings some value to the table, but does he deserve to have more money than a person will ever need while others who do the actual work have inadequate healthcare and live payday to payday?

Mind completing the sentence?

 

[billh13850]

Musk was given $300,000 start-up money by his parents. Obviously most people do not have access to that kind of free money.

Musk doesn't make Tesla cars. He doesn't design them. He pays other people to do that. People who don't have $300,000 and family connections to get them started in life.

Obviously Musk brings some value to the table, but does he deserve to have more money than a person will ever need while others who do the actual work have inadequate healthcare and live payday to payday?

If you don't think Musk is involved in the technical details, I dare you to challenge him on them. He's made fools of everyone who has tried so far. Yes, others do most of the work, but his influence cannot be (reasonably) denied.

 

[Off Shore]

Musk was given $300,000 start-up money by his parents.

Please document this assertion. Thank you.

 

[StephenM]

Please document this assertion. Thank you.

Agreed. That's the first I've heard of this.
All of Musk's detractors point to his dads emerald mine for the reason he's so successful but as far as I can tell his dad had zero to do with anything for Elon except mentally abuse him.

 

[LN1_Casey]

Agreed. That's the first I've heard of this.
All of Musk's detractors point to his dads emerald mine for the reason he's so successful but as far as I can tell his dad had zero to do with anything for Elon except mentally abuse him.

Pretty sure Musk fled from his father with something like $2k savings of his own money, and ended up in Canada with some family from his mother's side. I don't know when he was supposed to have gotten that $300k, since he worked on that farm in Canada for a while to make ends meet, then lived in his office space with his brother and they survived making pennies before he hit a break from selling his first business Zip2. Used those proceeds to make X, which later became paypal, sold that, then founded SpaceX, Tesla, and Solar City.

 

[wdolson]

Musk was given $300,000 start-up money by his parents. Obviously most people do not have access to that kind of free money.

Musk doesn't make Tesla cars. He doesn't design them. He pays other people to do that. People who don't have $300,000 and family connections to get them started in life.

Obviously Musk brings some value to the table, but does he deserve to have more money than a person will ever need while others who do the actual work have inadequate healthcare and live payday to payday?

He sarted Zip2 with his brother. His father claimed he gave them $28K to get started, but Elon denies this. His father did provide $20K in funding in a later funding round. That is the only documented money I can find that Elon's family provided. Getting $20K from family is more than a poor family could manage, but it is within range of a large percentage of middle class families.

Elon has leveraged a number of companies. He got $22 million from the sale of Zip2 which he investing in x.com, which later merged with another company to become Paypal.com. He made $165 million from the sale of Paypal that he first invested in SpaceX then Tesla.

There is a story that one of the techs at SpaceX was caught by Elon complaining that he couldn't meet the deadline Elon had set. Elon fired him on the spot and did his job until the task was completed (took a couple of weeks). Elon also was hands on in many phases of development at Tesla.

I read a story of one of the techs at Tesla who was busy putting together the emergency production line in the tent for the Model 3 and he when he looked over, he saw Elon was working right along with the other techs putting together the line.

He's far from an empty suit.

 

[hitchhiker]

The meme on "300k from his parents" has been going around for Bezos too. its a troll meme intended to turn people against each other.

The truth is that both of these guys had a level of privilege... the ability to go to college, the ability to have a place to work in their early career, etc. That should be taken to heart to look at the inequities in our society and try to see what we can do to lift more people up. But it doesn't invalidate the work these guys have done. Lots of other people had the same or greater level of privilege and didn't do anything useful with it.

 

[LN1_Casey]

The meme on "300k from his parents" has been going around for Bezos too. its a troll meme intended to turn people against each other.

The truth is that both of these guys had a level of privilege... the ability to go to college, the ability to have a place to work in their early career, etc. That should be taken to heart to look at the inequities in our society and try to see what we can do to lift more people up. But it doesn't invalidate the work these guys have done. Lots of other people had the same or greater level of privilege and didn't do anything useful with it.

I agree, in a sense. He is a white male, and that equates a lot in this world all else being equal.

However, you can also squirrel down the rabbit hole of privilege. Is he a dark black Male-to-Female trans lesbian who had survived a war zone as a child soldier, only to swim across the Atlantic to teach herself to read using the bottles she collected from the trash during the day, and surviving off food at the homeless shelter?

He was from a middle class family, and had student loans. He lived in his office trying to get his business off the ground, because he couldn't afford rent on an apartment. I think he was an illegal alien to the US for a while, since he was here on a student visa but I think had already dropped out of school.

People who bring up his "privilege" just want a reason to hate on his success. $300k is just pulled out of thin air because it is an impressively large number to a majority, and above what a middle class family could acquire.

 

[banned-66611]

Typo, $30,000 from his father to start Zip2.

Bezos got $245,500 from his parents to start Amazon.

 

[Off Shore]

Typo, $30,000 from his father to start Zip2.

Bezos got $245,500 from his parents to start Amazon.

Again, please, document this assertion.

 

[banned-66611]

Again, please, document this assertion.

Don't you have Google on your computer?

Zip2 - Wikipedia

Jeff Bezos' parents invested $245,573 in Amazon in 1995 — now they could be worth $30 billion

 

[Cosmacelf]

Don't you have Google on your computer?

Zip2 - Wikipedia

Jeff Bezos' parents invested $245,573 in Amazon in 1995 — now they could be worth $30 billion

That Wikipedia link currently says no such thing. It says:

Global Link Information Network was founded in 1995 by brothers Elon and KimbalMusk and Greg Kouri in Palo Alto, California with money raised from a small group of angel investors,[6] plus US$6,000 from Kouri.[4] In Ashlee Vance's biography of Elon Musk, it is claimed that the Musks' father, Errol Musk, provided them with US$28,000 during this time,[4]:Ch.4 but Elon Musk later denied this.[6] He later clarified that his dad provided around 10% of US$200,000 as part of a later funding round.[7]

Anyways, I think the counter point has been well made and said already. Elon is very much a self made man, contrary assertions notwithstanding.

 

[banned-66611]

That Wikipedia link currently says no such thing.

Yes it does.

Anyways, I think the counter point has been well made and said already. Elon is very much a self made man, contrary assertions notwithstanding.

He was born with a silver spoon up his arse, top quality expensive education, family contacts and reputation, significant investments from his parents. He had many advantages that others did not.

I don't know why this upsets you so much. He's a lucky guy, no one is blaming him for being born that way. Why all the hate for pointing out the facts about your dear leader?

 

[Cosmacelf]

Yes it does.

He was born with a silver spoon up his arse, top quality expensive education, family contacts and reputation, significant investments from his parents. He had many advantages that others did not.

I don't know why this upsets you so much. He's a lucky guy, no one is blaming him for being born that way. Why all the hate for pointing out the facts about your dear leader?

What hate? The only hate I see is your sarcastic and bitter reply. And you state I am wrong without giving evidence, quotes or anything, unlike what I did.

This “privileged” “debate” is pointless. Yes, some people are born with smarts, some with good looks, some with family money, some with schizophrenic parents, some are born in Democrat run hellholes like downtown Los Angeles. Regardless of how you start off in life you still have to work hard and sacrifice to achieve anything of value. Very very few people get by on luck, and Elon is not one of those people. Even your naturally handsome and engaging personality movie star must work at being a good actor, especially the ones at the top.

 

[Nuclear Fusion]

Just read up on Tesla history, Marc Tarpenning & Martin Eberhard - boy Elon Musk is hypersensitive with a massive ego (a.k.a deeply insecure)

 

[Cosmacelf]

Just read up on Tesla history, Marc Tarpenning & Martin Eberhard - boy Elon Musk is hypersensitive with a massive ego (a.k.a deeply insecure)

You don't have to be insecure to have a massive ego. Elon could also simply be a guy who doesn't like seeing his own biography being misrepresented. Finally, Elon knows well the value of having a personal brand. The fact Elon is so well regarded seems to rub some people the wrong way, but it enables him to raise copious amounts of $$ from investors. Without that investment money, Tesla and SpaceX are a shell of what they are now. You might even say that puffing out your chest feathers is a requirement of being a successful CEO.

 

[Nuclear Fusion]

You don't have to be insecure to have a massive ego. Elon could also simply be a guy who doesn't like seeing his own biography being misrepresented. Finally, Elon knows well the value of having a personal brand. The fact Elon is so well regarded seems to rub some people the wrong way, but it enables him to raise copious amounts of $$ from investors. Without that investment money, Tesla and SpaceX are a shell of what they are now. You might even say that puffing out your chest feathers is a requirement of being a successful CEO.

Nah, it’s just that arrogance seems to be a virtue in America. Sad.
As for biography, it’s Elon who wants it misrepresented