Elon Musk

[Zilla91]

There's a rule that bans politics so remove the politics and leave the rest up and let those that want to discuss the topic to do so. Eventually the message will sink in that any politics talk will be removed and people will stop. But to close down debate is simply a ridiculous stance to take on a discussion forum.

 

[wdolson]

Other Moderator Note: I hope, at the minimum, members can be understanding that it's challenging for moderators to adapt to this new paradigm. While we've historically added forums for Elon's other companies (SpaceX, Boring Company, etc.), those were always more technical discussions and significantly less related to politics. This site has always had a ban on political discussions, and any discussion of Twitter seems to rapidly gravitate there, which is problematic not only from a moderation standpoint but from a membership cohesion standpoint.

As a moderator and user of this site, I also understand that it's currently hard to separate Elon Musk's actions from Tesla the company. Historically, members here treated them as almost one and the same. So discussing his public persona and advertised opinions is definitely related to the company, and people who have followed Tesla for years are going to want to express their opinions. The problem with opinions revolving around outrage (warranted or not) is that it provides short term fulfillment and brings members back to re-engage, and re-engage again. Great for driving site views, bad for building member cohesion. Perhaps this is what @Right_Said_Fred meant when he said this place is not Twitter, nor do we want it to be. But I don't want to speak for him.

We are currently discussing site policies about Twitter, how to moderate, and what to allow, and engaging the site admins and owners to determine what best serves the site and most importantly, the membership. It's probably going to be a little bumpy and uneven for now, but I wanted to write this to just ask some courtesy from the members towards the moderation staff, who are truly trying to find the right solution for all of us.

Heck, I was mad at Elon for the referral program nonsense, which caused us a ton of moderation headaches. Little did I know he was going to make this unpaid job even harder..

You have a difficult needle to thread. Tesla and Elon have been extremely intertwined from the beginning, so discussion of Elon has had to be allowed. Then Elon went and became very political and somewhat unhinged. How do you keep a forum civil when the topic of frequent conversation is someone who has ceased to be civil?

 

[Norbert]

It doesn’t have to be and it shouldn’t be.

The issue is that one end of the spectrum often takes it too far which alienates those who wish to take a more measured approach (which may seem lackadaisical but in reality is much more humanitarian than the collectivist method)

No one truly has it right, and it’s arrogant to think anyone will so long as there’s no settled consensus.

The "two sides" position which is not the scientific consensus, which does exist (call it "settled" or not). Actually a purely political statement.

 

[Dave EV]

It's ironic given his conduct here is anything but good natured. I'm downvoting some of his posts but that's because he really doesn't add much of substance to the forum except downvoting anyone that questions Elon or posts a link to a newsworthy article on Elon or Tesla that doesn't fit his narrative. Personally I don't understand why he hasn't been banned given his extreme fanatical actions as I've never seen anyone abuse a downvote button on any forum like this before. Fanboys like him are the reason that Tesla fans in general get a bad name. I can't wait for the laughing reaction he gives this post. The guy downvotes or laughs at nearly every 2nd post here and he thinks other people may need time outs? Surely the mods can see what he's doing? Right?

Ignoring users like that help, but unfortunately ignoring users does not also ignore their "Likes" or "Disagrees" in this case. It's a major failing of the forum software, IMO and something that I've brought up before: Ignoring users should also hide their feedback

An alternative mitigation, would be to ditch the Disagree button. There's a reason why the big social media platforms only have positive reactions to posts... (Yeah, I know this has been hashed out many times in the past)

The "two sides" position which is not the scientific consensus, which does exist (call it "settled" or not). Actually a purely political statement.

Yep - giving "both sides" of a position equal weight and airspace, where one position has no basis in reality is in large part, the reason why humanity is facing crises like global warming.

 

[trayloader]

The issue is, even just having it to begin with the bird chirping was bleeding into other threads (even new one being started), subforums and posts were constantly having to be moved because folks just couldn’t help themselves.

The easiest solution is to just shut it down completely and give people who try to restart it time outs.

What is Your objective Tejas citizen?
I thought the old thread was pretty balanced, almost no hate was spilled and the moderators, albeit not always neutral were doing a decent job.
Then the guillotine fell and the thread was cut off.
Now where do people let off steam and comment the daily craziness?
Would be interesting to hear Your take on this. Promise to keep the thumbs down out

 

[trayloader]

It's ironic given his conduct here is anything but good natured. I'm downvoting some of his posts but that's because he really doesn't add much of substance to the forum except downvoting anyone that questions Elon or posts a link to a newsworthy article on Elon or Tesla that doesn't fit his narrative. Personally I don't understand why he hasn't been banned given his extreme fanatical actions as I've never seen anyone abuse a downvote button on any forum like this before. Fanboys like him are the reason that Tesla fans in general get a bad name. I can't wait for the laughing reaction he gives this post. The guy downvotes or laughs at nearly every 2nd post here and he thinks other people may need time outs? Surely the mods can see what he's doing? Right?

Very good post that sums it up.
If this forum might be "monitored", "mined" and serves "interests", then "neutrality" is at play.

 

[Matias]

Not anything new but I link this just FYI about the current media sentimen.

The Cult of Musk is creaking

‘Elon, pls come back’ ~ Tesla shareholders

www.ft.com

 

[ElectricIAC]

Not anything new but I link this just FYI about the current media sentimen.

The Cult of Musk is creaking

‘Elon, pls come back’ ~ Tesla shareholders

www.ft.com

My paper tells me what to do?

I most emphatically say, nay.

 

[Right_Said_Fred]

After having been locked for a few days the Elon & Twitter thread in the Off Topic subforum is open for discussion again. For now at least, until the admins of this site decide what to do with the subject of that thread.

In the meantime these are the rules:
- No politics (per the Forum Rules)
- No personal attacks
- No serial-downvoting (or laughing)
- No discussion of the moderation policy
- No discussion about Twitter & Elon in other threads, which includes the one you are in now.

Failure to follow these rules can result in a warning or a ban.

 

[ohmman]

Mod Note: Some posts moved to Elon & Twitter as the discussion was more appropriate there. I'm going to continue to try to keep Twitter chatter in that thread and non-Twitter chatter in this thread just because I don't care for duplicated parallel discussions, often with the same participants. Efficiency!

 

[spacerfc]

Oxford thinks woke culture has gone too far – The Oxford Student

A similar motion at Cambridge Union, “This house believes in the right to offend”, was also carried this week.

www.oxfordstudent.com

Elon Musk got attacked relentlessly for worrying about woke, yet here we're...

Just another thing among a long list of things Elon has said that got him dunked by the left, yet ultimately proven to be correct by reality.

 

[JRP3]

Of course woke went too far, hardly a secret that only Elon figured out, but it's far from the major problem Elon and some others cry about incessantly.

 

[thx1139]

Of course woke went too far, hardly a secret that only Elon figured out, but it's far from the major problem Elon and some others cry about incessantly.

Sure would be helpful to know WTF woke is

 

[italian bread]

Sure would be helpful to know WTF woke is

This:

War on wokeness: the year the right rallied around a made-up menace​

In 2021, the right became increasingly irate at what it described as “wokeness” but which tended to mean any attempt to engage in civil rights or social justice. In 2022, anti-woke became an ideology in itself, an attempt for the right to rebrand bigotry as a resistance movement.

The movement found a leader in DeSantis, who leveraged the anxiety of white voters to win re-election and author the Stop Woke Act, a legislative prototype that would prevent educational institutions and businesses from teaching anything that would cause anyone to “feel guilt, anguish or any form of psychological distress” due to their race, color, sex or national origin. A federal judge ultimately struck down large parts of the bill, calling it “positively dystopian”.

 

[JRP3]

Sure would be helpful to know WTF woke is

To me it's basically not punching down on minorities and marginalized people, (radical, I know), where it's gone too far is not allowing any criticism of them at all as well as some over the top forced "inclusion" that doesn't reflect reality. It's a perfectly predictable behavior pattern of over reaction that people always do, including the overreaction to those changes by those who fear change and find their own identity threatened. It's revealing that Elon seems to fall into that latter category, and extremely unfortunate.

 

[wdolson]

This:

War on wokeness: the year the right rallied around a made-up menace​

In 2021, the right became increasingly irate at what it described as “wokeness” but which tended to mean any attempt to engage in civil rights or social justice. In 2022, anti-woke became an ideology in itself, an attempt for the right to rebrand bigotry as a resistance movement.

The movement found a leader in DeSantis, who leveraged the anxiety of white voters to win re-election and author the Stop Woke Act, a legislative prototype that would prevent educational institutions and businesses from teaching anything that would cause anyone to “feel guilt, anguish or any form of psychological distress” due to their race, color, sex or national origin. A federal judge ultimately struck down large parts of the bill, calling it “positively dystopian”.

There is a term another forum I was on called dumb chills which is when you see someone doing something cringe worthy and sympathetically cringe.

Respecting other people's rights and letting people be is an honorable trait in a culture, but there are some on the left who go too far. One thing that is happening a lot today are people getting outraged on behalf of another group. Often unappreciated by that group. One example I just heard the other day. A comedian who is blind went on a topical comedy show on British TV. The show is a game show format with comedians and the purpose is to make jokes about the news. There are parts of the show that are visual and before the show the blind comedian had talked with the producer about how he was going to handle the visual components and he came up with the idea that he would just throw out random guesses for the humor of it. After the show aired Twitter lit up with people outraged on his behalf. They didn't get the joke nor that he was 100% in on the joke.

That sort of getting worked up about what people perceive as someone else's problem, even when the person who supposedly has the problem is a dumb chill moment. I guess it makes the people feeling outrage to feel better about supporting the downtrodden, but the supposed downtrodden don't want that kind of help and it alienates a lot of people who otherwise are sympathetic to the plight of those less fortunate, but who aren't getting worked up into a lather on their behalf at everything that happens.

The anti-woke movement has attracted these people, but it is a deliberate political ploy to drive social wedges into society. I came to the conclusion many years ago that when it comes to behaviors, 180 degrees opposite of the current behavior is usually just as wrong as the original behavior, but in different ways. Being aware that various communities have issues and accommodating them at the request of that community when possible is a good thing. Getting outraged at everything you think is a slight on that community is not a good thing. Especially when you don't check in with that community first and see if they are actually upset. But declaring war on what is essentially looking out for others is just as unhealthy or worse.

But to come back to Elon, he was more or less right about one social issue. He's been wrong about a lot of others too. As the saying goes the broke (analog) clock is right twice a day. Just because you glance at the broken clock and it happens to tell you the right time once does not mean it will be right every time you glance at it.

 

[thx1139]

There is a term another forum I was on called dumb chills which is when you see someone doing something cringe worthy and sympathetically cringe.

Respecting other people's rights and letting people be is an honorable trait in a culture, but there are some on the left who go too far. One thing that is happening a lot today are people getting outraged on behalf of another group. Often unappreciated by that group. One example I just heard the other day. A comedian who is blind went on a topical comedy show on British TV. The show is a game show format with comedians and the purpose is to make jokes about the news. There are parts of the show that are visual and before the show the blind comedian had talked with the producer about how he was going to handle the visual components and he came up with the idea that he would just throw out random guesses for the humor of it. After the show aired Twitter lit up with people outraged on his behalf. They didn't get the joke nor that he was 100% in on the joke.

That sort of getting worked up about what people perceive as someone else's problem, even when the person who supposedly has the problem is a dumb chill moment. I guess it makes the people feeling outrage to feel better about supporting the downtrodden, but the supposed downtrodden don't want that kind of help and it alienates a lot of people who otherwise are sympathetic to the plight of those less fortunate, but who aren't getting worked up into a lather on their behalf at everything that happens.

The anti-woke movement has attracted these people, but it is a deliberate political ploy to drive social wedges into society. I came to the conclusion many years ago that when it comes to behaviors, 180 degrees opposite of the current behavior is usually just as wrong as the original behavior, but in different ways. Being aware that various communities have issues and accommodating them at the request of that community when possible is a good thing. Getting outraged at everything you think is a slight on that community is not a good thing. Especially when you don't check in with that community first and see if they are actually upset. But declaring war on what is essentially looking out for others is just as unhealthy or worse.

But to come back to Elon, he was more or less right about one social issue. He's been wrong about a lot of others too. As the saying goes the broke (analog) clock is right twice a day. Just because you glance at the broken clock and it happens to tell you the right time once does not mean it will be right every time you glance at it.

Ok so now I know anti-woke are the people that get bent out of shape that some likely small group of very vocal people whined on social media. Where were these people when I was a kid and shows like "Soap" were ran off the air?

 

[ElectricIAC]

Ok so now I know anti-woke are the people that get bent out of shape that some likely small group of very vocal people whined on social media. Where were these people when I was a kid and shows like "Soap" were ran off the air?

There’s a difference, those loud mouthed social media “justice warriors” carry outsized institutional power to run their grift on.

 

[JRP3]

Elon instructed Tesla engineers to fake the 2016 Model X self driving video and then lied about the capabilities. Unfortunate Trevor Milton vibes.

"A 2016 video that Tesla (TSLA.O) used to promote its self-driving technology was staged to show capabilities like stopping at a red light and accelerating at a green light that the system did not have, according to testimony by a senior engineer."

"But the Model X was not driving itself with technology Tesla had deployed, Ashok Elluswamy, director of Autopilot software at Tesla, said in the transcript of a July deposition taken as evidence in a lawsuit against Tesla for a 2018 fatal crash involving a former Apple (AAPL.O) engineer."

"Elluswamy said Tesla’s Autopilot team set out to engineer and record a “demonstration of the system’s capabilities” at the request of Musk.""

"When Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”"

Tesla video promoting self-driving was staged, engineer testifies

A 2016 video that Tesla used to promote its self-driving technology was staged to show capabilities like stopping at a red light and accelerating at a green light that the system did not have, according to testimony by a senior engineer.

www.reuters.com

 

[patsfan02360]

There’s a difference, those loud mouthed social media “justice warriors” carry outsized institutional power to run their grift on.

"justice warriors" and their grift and their outsized institutional power? go on....