Emergency Lane Departure - False Positives

[AlanSubie4Life]

I think allowing permanent disable would be the wrong solution as many people would never reenable it when it's more reliable.

There's no reason they could not make it optional as long as it is still not working well, and then make it mandatory, regardless of previous selections (just like AEB which must be turned off for every drive), once it is working with a high degree of reliability and with an appropriate amount of correction. At the moment, multiple people seem to be suggesting it is a potential safety hazard. So, when comparing safety to the prior software version without this feature, there is really no downside to allowing it to be turned off permanently for the next software version.

 

[SammichLover]

I think allowing permanent disable would be the wrong solution as many people would never reenable it when it's more reliable. They better geofence it for now to highways and main roads with well defined lines, and make it a bit less trigger happy.

It is out of line with the car’s design philosophy. That’s not gonna change, and me not wanting it on is very unlikely to ever change.

AP can steer when I give it express permission. Barring that, hands off the wheel.

 

[Hank101]

I just received software 2019.19.3 on my 2019 RWD LR and according to "Tesla Control" app, when I click the "i" button, I have "Autopilot 2.5 Hardware".

Build date is 4/19.

Took it for a test drive and all seems well.

Visualizations look as expected, Sentry Mode icon on top of screen, software updates are controllable with setting, music settings controls now located in lower screen "Settings" button. Lane departure works as per pbd87's video description.

 

[SammichLover]

Lane departure works as per pbd87's video description.

Which, despite the similar name, isn’t what this thread is about.

LDA & ELDA are two different features.

PS You have 19.3? Not 16.3?

 

[smatthew]

Also, as pointed out on this video, this ONLY happens if you DRIFT out of your lane WITHOUT steering input. If you STEER out of your lane, the car lets you get on with it.

In the cases I have experienced, it occurred WHILE I WAS STEERING attempting to over-rule what I wanted to do. It's also not a gentle, guide you back into the center of the lane it's an aggressive TURN RIGHT, or TURN LEFT.

I led ELDA trigger on my car and all I got was a very gentle tug. Maybe we have different criteria for what is gentle.

 

[jsmay311]

Any confirmation that 16.3 fixes anything here?

16.3 still forces ELDA on at the beginning of every drive. (See here: Tesla Software 2019.16.3)

I can't speak to whether or not it changes the frequency of false positives tho.

 

[SammichLover]

I led ELDA trigger on my car and all I got was a very gentle tug. Maybe we have different criteria for what is gentle.

I expect it was roughly the disruption I'd feel driving over sizable (but not grill destroying) roadkill or something, pushing me one way or the other. I certainly can counter that given some modest effort, but I picked my line and I shouldn't have to fight the car to keep it. It is the "out of nowhere" aspect that makes it feel bigger, I expect.

Especially given if I'm willfully painting outside the lines for reasons that the car doesn't comprehend then it is near the worst time for the car to be fighting me, however feeble its spaghetti-arms are. There really is no way for Tesla to train it to avoid that "false positive". If they could we'd be able to throw out our steering wheels and lounge in all-weather, all-roads Level 5 glory.

P.S. When you say you let(?) "ELDA trigger on my car", what do you mean by this? How did you do this?

 

[bwilson4web]

I think allowing permanent disable would be the wrong solution as many people would never reenable it when it's more reliable.

A subsequent release can re-enable until the owner turns it off . . . after an alarm.

Bob Wilson

 

[Eno Deb]

So, I unwisely decided to let the 2019.16.2 update go through yesterday, and already had my first false positive. This is the N 1st exit on eastbound SR237 in San Jose, and ELDA went off and tried to steer to the right just before I approached the traffic light sign on the left. I definitely did not cross the yellow line. Luckily I had my hands firmly on the wheel so there was only a minimal jerk. The unexpected alarm sound was jarring though. I have no clue why it intervened, perhaps it was spooked by the sign?

 

[ammulder]

I got an update notice this afternoon (HW3 so I assume it’s for 16.3), and I’m reluctant to install it because of this issue. We have a lot of temporary road repair/tree trimming/bicycles/etc. where I have to leave the lane to get around things. There are also big potholes on two routes I commonly take where I have to move to or possibly past the lane stripe to avoid them, and one is near a metal barrier and the other near a curb. If the car sees me leaving a lane toward an obstacle and throws me into a pothole I’d be pretty irked.

If I could know that I could resist the tug without swerving I’d be OK with it. But I don’t want to end up swerving toward the pothole (if ELDA wins) or the barrier/curb (if I win).

How would you all compare the force needed to override autosteer by turning the wheel to the force needed to override ELDA?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

So, I unwisely decided to let the 2019.16.2 update go through yesterday, and already had my first false positive.

Yeah, that does seem unwise, but I understand the tug of the update...

I got an update notice this afternoon (HW3 so I assume it’s for 16.3), and I’m reluctant to install it because of this issue

I'm holding out. I'm not aware of any good reason to update to 16.3 (or 16.2). This was the major feature addition, and my understanding is the other enhancements were just the visualizations, which are of no consequence for the most part.

EDIT: I guess there was the Sentry mode location specific stuff as well....not too important to me. END EDIT.

I'd just hold out; I'm not aware of anything else we're missing out on. The only annoying thing is the update prompt...not sure if there is a way to suppress that (would think not).

Arguably it is a safety improvement, of course, but I'm kind of in the same boat as you in the sense I can't tell how strong the tug is based on people's descriptions, how bad the false positives are, etc.

For me, the alarm sound is the deal breaker. My wife is a super-sensitive person when it comes to sounds and HATES alarm noises, so forgetting to turn it off manually one time is likely to lead to negative consequences for me and a general upset of marital bliss. The silence is one thing I really like about the current lane departure warning (vibrates steering wheel silently).

 

[datoda]

I had another false positive last night, while driving on a two-lane downhill curve. I have driven that road many many times and I was 100% sure I was within lines and not in danger of making contact with objects of substance in this dimension. ELDA gave me a sudden jerk + buzzes to get me very close to the center line.

I am putting a sticky note on my dash to remind myself to turn off this feature first thing after I switch out of Park. Tesla, please make ELDA elective ASAP. Don't make me tattoo the reminder on the back of my right hand (a la Memento)!

 

[jkeyser14]

I had a false positive today. E-mailed tesla support to complain. Here are three other false positives from Reddit this week that could have injured or killed someone:

Emergency Lane Departure Avoidance dangerous in NL (and more countries) : teslamotors

Emergency lane departure almost caused a serious accident. : teslamotors

What's the difference between Lane Departure Avoidance "Assist" and Emergency LDA? A 2019.16 story/question : teslamotors

 

[jyalpert]

Oh interesting, this just happened to me. My car is a SR base with no AP. Was driving back from the store on a 2 lane residential road with no lane lines at 30ish mph. It freaked out at a parked car and jerked the wheel and made some noises. I got that 16.2 software update the other day.

This feature has really poor precision apparently. I'm surprised they didnt detect this in shadow mode.

 

[Az_Rael]

Well, hopefully these are currently on the “review” algorithm trigger so they can see how many aren’t working correctly. Hopefully no one will have the car sideswipe something in the meantime while we wait for a fix.

I did get the update (the software siren call drew me in), but luckily I haven’t gotten a false activation yet. But I sure did white knuckle a construction zone with bad lines and only inches from a concrete barrier after reading this thread (forgot to turn ELD off of course).

I figure my car is now waiting patiently for me to let my guard down, then it will surprise me. Keeps my heart rate up, just like the phantom braking. Tesla is only thinking about my health.

 

[Economite]

This feature has really poor precision apparently. I'm surprised they didnt detect this in shadow mode.

Or by just giving the feature sufficient in-house road testing before releasing it.

 

[jyalpert]

Or by just giving the feature sufficient in-house road testing before releasing it.

Yeah.

I watched the autonomy day thing. Tesla must have a whole boatload of mechanical Turks manually labeling all sorts of pics and videos all day. Makes me wonder if they labeled the false positive lane departures wrong. Their QA and testing procedures are pretty opaque to me.

 

[jkeyser14]

Another incident today:
PSA: Emergency Lane Departure Avoidance has steered me into oncoming traffic multiple times since 2019.16.2. : teslamotors

 

[TesSpartan]

I got an update notice this afternoon (HW3 so I assume it’s for 16.3), and I’m reluctant to install it because of this issue. We have a lot of temporary road repair/tree trimming/bicycles/etc. where I have to leave the lane to get around things. There are also big potholes on two routes I commonly take where I have to move to or possibly past the lane stripe to avoid them, and one is near a metal barrier and the other near a curb. If the car sees me leaving a lane toward an obstacle and throws me into a pothole I’d be pretty irked.

If I could know that I could resist the tug without swerving I’d be OK with it. But I don’t want to end up swerving toward the pothole (if ELDA wins) or the barrier/curb (if I win).

How would you all compare the force needed to override autosteer by turning the wheel to the force needed to override ELDA?

I've experienced it a few times and it is a mild force, sometimes to the point I am not even sure it tried to redirect me but I am sure it did due to the sound alarm and/or the red lines on the screen. It is easy to resist it, so don't give any big response to over correct - that is my advice.

 

[Kant.Ing]

LDA and ELDA are disguised as safety features, but rather two of the many building blocks of FSD. I think Tesla's definition of feature complete means to demonstrate these mini-features. How many to surface? I don't know.

If their architecture is right and all the necessary building blocks are exhausted and designed correctly, FSD will eventually work. However, if most of the blocks are not working reliably 100%, the whole FSD would fail easily.