Energy Consumption On Model 3?

[Dan Detweiler]

The news that Tesla will be crediting 400 kW per year on the Supercharger network for new cars has me wondering. Elon said that this should equate to about 1000 miles of range. Unless I am screwing something up, that means he is assuming 400 watts per mile. What are the general thoughts as to the electrical consumption for the Model 3? I was thinking that being a smaller car (granted, that doesn't necessarily mean lighter), more aerodynamic, more efficient battery chemistry, etc. that we might see usage significantly lower than that. Am I missing the mark here? What do you all that know a hell of a lot more about such things than I do think?

Dan

 

[Bokonon]

The news that Tesla will be crediting 400 kW per year on the Supercharger network for new cars has me wondering. Elon said that this should equate to about 1000 miles of range. Unless I am screwing something up, that means he is assuming 400 watts per mile. What are the general thoughts as to the electrical consumption for the Model 3? I was thinking that being a smaller car (granted, that doesn't necessarily mean lighter), more aerodynamic, more efficient battery chemistry, etc. that we might see usage significantly lower than that. Am I missing the mark here? What do you all that know a hell of a lot more about such things than I do think?

Dan

I think the announcement primarily has the Model S and Model X in mind, rather than the Model 3... and even then, it's erring on the conservative side, just to be safe. If the Model 3 is going to be smaller and lighter and smaller than the Model S/X, and it is going to achieve at least 215 miles of range with a < 60 kWh battery, there is absolutely no way that its efficiency is going to be 400 wH/mile.

My guess is that the Model 3 will be rated much closer to 250 wH/mile, or about 1600 miles per 400 kWh.

 

[Dan Detweiler]

That's what I was thinking but not being an engineer or anything I wasn't sure. Thanks

Dan

 

[phigment]

Also, there is nothing stopping them from offering a smaller amount of supercharging credits with the Model 3. The plan details aren't released yet.

 

[JeffK]

It is on the conservative side and it all depends how you drive. Consider that many people will probably use these credits when travelling so they are going to be averaging 70-85 mph freeway/highway driving with AC or Heat on (summer vacation or a winter holiday).

 

[dsvick]

Also, there is nothing stopping them from offering a smaller amount of supercharging credits with the Model 3. The plan details aren't released yet.

That's true, but I'd consider it highly unlikely. The blog post says "For Teslas ordered after January 1, 2017" and then later in the post specifically mentions that this is in preparation for the Model 3. So I don't think they're going to come out with this post and then come out with another one in less than a year and further clarify it or make it any more complex.

 

[ecarfan]

The base Model 3 will be more energy efficient than a RWD Model S, and the Dual Motor 3 will be more efficient than the Dual Motor S. By how much I do not know bit I don't expect it to be more than about 10%. It's still going to be a heavy car for its size because of the battery pack.

The base Model 3 may not come with any amount of "free" Supercharging. Instead the base version may be a pay-per-use model and then perhaps there will be an option for a Supercharger plan like the S and X will have as of 1/1/2017.

 

[22522]

Ecarfan,

Tesla's posture towards customers seems different than that last paragraph. Is my perception wrong?

 

[ecarfan]

Your "perception" is just as valid as mine, since Tesla has not specifically stated how Model 3 Supercharging will be offered. Keep in mind that the recent Supercharging announcement contains few details. More info coming...sometime.

 

[SageBrush]

The news that Tesla will be crediting 400 kW per year on the Supercharger network for new cars has me wondering. Elon said that this should equate to about 1000 miles of range. Unless I am screwing something up, that means he is assuming 400 watts per mile. What are the general thoughts as to the electrical consumption for the Model 3? I was thinking that being a smaller car (granted, that doesn't necessarily mean lighter), more aerodynamic, more efficient battery chemistry, etc. that we might see usage significantly lower than that. Am I missing the mark here? What do you all that know a hell of a lot more about such things than I do think?

Dan

You are confusing the expected EPA energy consumption of the M3 (waaaay below 400 wh/mile) with American driving behavior when the energy is free of charge (can indeed approach 400 wh/mile, even in a M3.)

You will be given a purse of kWh each year. Spend it as you see fit.

 

[jsmay311]

The base Model 3 may not come with any amount of "free" Supercharging. Instead the base version may be a pay-per-use model and then perhaps there will be an option for a Supercharger plan like the S and X will have as of 1/1/2017.

Respectfully, I think you're way off base. The announcement from Tesla says:

"For Teslas ordered after January 1, 2017, 400 kWh of free Supercharging credits (roughly 1,000 miles) will be included annually so that all owners can continue to enjoy free Supercharging during travel."

It makes no mention of applying this only to S/X's. So while it doesn't explicitly spell it out, the clear implication is that this new structure will apply equally to all new Teslas.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Also, there is nothing stopping them from offering a smaller amount of supercharging credits with the Model 3. The plan details aren't released yet.

I hope not. I can't imagine why they would do that.

 

[Garlan Garner]

The base Model 3 will be more energy efficient than a RWD Model S, and the Dual Motor 3 will be more efficient than the Dual Motor S. By how much I do not know bit I don't expect it to be more than about 10%. It's still going to be a heavy car for its size because of the battery pack.

The base Model 3 may not come with any amount of "free" Supercharging. Instead the base version may be a pay-per-use model and then perhaps there will be an option for a Supercharger plan like the S and X will have as of 1/1/2017.

Hey folks Shhhhhhhh. Tesla is probably reading this thread. Lets not give them any ideas. LOL

 

[Sharkbait]

It makes no mention of applying this only to S/X's. So while it doesn't explicitly spell it out, the clear implication is that this new structure will apply equally to all new Teslas.

In the email I received at 5:11 PM, PST:

"For Model S and Model X vehicles ordered after January 1, 2017, 400 kWh of free Supercharging credits (roughly 1,000 miles) will be included annually so that owners can continue to enjoy free Supercharging during travel."

Further details in the email link to the blog here:

An Update to Our Supercharging Program

 

[Jayc]

Already discussed here Update to the Supercharger network policies
and off topic here.

 

[hingisfan]

The base Model 3 will be more energy efficient than a RWD Model S, and the Dual Motor 3 will be more efficient than the Dual Motor S. By how much I do not know bit I don't expect it to be more than about 10%. It's still going to be a heavy car for its size because of the battery pack.

The base Model 3 may not come with any amount of "free" Supercharging. Instead the base version may be a pay-per-use model and then perhaps there will be an option for a Supercharger plan like the S and X will have as of 1/1/2017.

Elon was pretty specific saying "ALL Teslas"....He didnt say all Model S/X.

 

[hingisfan]

I'd guess base 3 will be somewhere around 155-165wh/km for EPA rated range. My 60 RWD is based at 178.

 

[ecarfan]

Elon was pretty specific saying "ALL Teslas"....He didnt say all Model S/X.

The recent blog post said (my holding): "For Teslas ordered after January 1, 2017, 400 kWh of free Supercharging credits (roughly 1,000 miles) will be included annually...".

Since currently Tesla only makes two models, the S and the X, that wording indicates that the announced change includes both models. I do not see the words "all Teslas" in that blog post.

It does not rule out the possibility that the Model 3 will have some alternative plan, nor does it rule out changes to the plan in the future.

It seems likely that the recent change will apply to the Model 3 also, but it is my belief that the Model 3 may also offer another Supercharging plan where all Supercharging will be charged on a pay-per-use basis.

Tesla has to figure out how to attract buyers who have no possibility of getting home or work charging. Offering them a low cost Supercharging plan where they pay every time they charge may be one way to do that. The charge cost per kWh could be less than the alternative which is the soon to be implemented 400kWh/year free Supercharging and then pay-per-use over that.

I am simply offering that as a possibility because I do not think that the recent statement from Tesla has ruled it out.

 

[Dan Detweiler]

Tesla has to figure out how to attract buyers who have no possibility of getting home or work charging. Offering them a low cost Supercharging plan where they pay every time they charge may be one way to do that. The charge cost per kWh could be less than the alternative which is the soon to be implemented 400kWh/year free Supercharging and then pay-per-use over that.

I'm not so sure they do...at least not in the near future. There is a huge market share of untapped potential customers that would have access to daily charging at home that they can target. I think it is pretty clear that Tesla is going to have more than enough orders than they can handle for now. In the future it might be something they would need to consider but the Supercharger network was never intended for people to use as daily charging. People have taken advantage of Tesla's good faith in offering free supercharging for life and they will continue to be able to do so if they already have a car.

In my opinion Tesla needs to be able to continue to develop the network as it was intended, that of a way to make the electric vehicle viable for long distance travel. Once that is firmly establish and available in all areas of the country for all corridors of travel then perhaps they can look at ways of addressing the apartment dwelling segment of the population. I think they have plenty to keep them busy right now though.

As always, just my 2 cents.

Dan

 

[McRat]

The states are going to have address laws enabling multi-tenant property owners to put in infrastructure without large rent increases.

EV's work most effectively when charged during low demand hours.

To make the masses WANT to trade in the ICE for an EV, one of the best arguments is the "wake to a full tank each morning" argument, and no warm up required. These are 2 significant operational flaws in petro, H2, and CNG options.

If more people actually drove an EV for a month, and the price was in their auto budget, IMO, EV sales would accelerate REGARDLESS of the the price of gasoline. It's simply simpler.