TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

EPA Has S85D Range at 285mi Highway with SleepMode

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by mdevp, Jan 24, 2015.

  1. mdevp

    mdevp Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2014
    Messages:
    454
    Location:
    nj
  2. lolachampcar

    lolachampcar Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2012
    Messages:
    4,453
    Location:
    WPB Florida
    And that sleep mode can not come too soon on my PD. Less than 290 W Hr / mile over 18K miles on my P+ and I can not get the PD less than 350 with very favorable weather here in Florida. That is 60/290 or almost a 21% increase and, no, it is not because I am driving the D harder.
     
  3. darthy001

    darthy001 Love my car, hope Tesla can get as great!

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2012
    Messages:
    721
    Location:
    Bærum, Norway
    Hmm.. Wonder if the P85D-figures are with 19 or 21"-wheels...
     
  4. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

    Joined:
    May 17, 2009
    Messages:
    18,235
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV
    I thought the P85D numbers were with the 21" tires.
     
  5. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2013
    Messages:
    3,029
    Location:
    Delaware
    Hmm. Looks like even with two of the smaller light "highway" motors the S85D is still heavier than the base S85 - at least that seems to me to be the most likely explanation for the slightly lower City range. And, as promised, it has significantly more range on the highway.
    Walter
     
  6. lolachampcar

    lolachampcar Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2012
    Messages:
    4,453
    Location:
    WPB Florida
    #6 lolachampcar, Jan 24, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2015
    My P+ numbers were with 21s and PS2s while the PD numbers are with 20" and PSS.

    I just saw the post below. Sorry about that.
     
  7. darthy001

    darthy001 Love my car, hope Tesla can get as great!

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2012
    Messages:
    721
    Location:
    Bærum, Norway
    Oh sorry, I see that my post could be misread if this was an answer to my post. I was thinking of the EPA-numbers.

    265miles on 21"-wheels is fantastic news for me. The same on 19"-wheels is OK, but no celebrating will occur;)
     
  8. EarlyAdopter

    EarlyAdopter Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,499
    Location:
    Redmond, WA
    The fine print under note 2. says the EPA numbers for all vehicles are with 19" wheels.
     
  9. dennis

    dennis P85D

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2012
    Messages:
    1,223
    Location:
    Silicon Valley CA
    Here is the definitive chart from the article:

    epa-model-s_zps76cd75d5.jpg

    First column is EPA City Range, 2nd is Highway and 3rd is Overall. Note that the EPA Highway range for the P85D is within 1 mile of the Highway range for the S 85. And while the EPA City range of the 85D is 5 miles less than the S 85, the City range of the P85D is 20 miles less. According to the Tesla website all of these numbers are with 19 inch wheels.

    7 days left until JB promised delivery of the torque sleep software (end of January).
     
  10. lolachampcar

    lolachampcar Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2012
    Messages:
    4,453
    Location:
    WPB Florida
    242 (P85D city) to 265 (S85 highway) is a worst case comparison for range loss using these numbers which is 23/265 or an 8.7% reduction in range. That is not even on the same spread sheet as the reduction I am seeing. Something smells way off. I do hope it will be resolved with the new software.
     
  11. NOLA_Mike

    NOLA_Mike Active Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2013
    Messages:
    1,563
    Location:
    Hammond, LA
    Similar numbers here. 313 Wh/mile lifetime on my P85+ (14,875 miles). 372 Wh/mile on my P85D (1,850 miles). A 19% increase in energy usage.

    Mike
     
  12. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    7,050
    Here's all the numbers from the EPA site:
    http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=35980&id=36009&id=36008


    I was hoping the MPGe (kWh/100mi) math would be resolved, but it's still not comparable between the models.

    From the kWh/100mi figures (results from MPGe in parentheses), I calculate that the AC electricity the cycle used:
    S85 - 100.7kWh (100.3kWh)
    S85D - 91.8kWh (91kWh)
    P85D - 91.1kWh (91.7kWh)

    So its seems either the charging efficiency increased drastically for the S85D and P85D vs the older S85, or the newer models have less usable capacity.
     
  13. jerjozwik

    jerjozwik Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2014
    Messages:
    702
    Location:
    san gabriel valley
    i challenge any future 85D owner to break into the 300 mile range with some clever driving.
     
  14. breser

    breser AutoPilot Nostradamus

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2014
    Messages:
    2,310
    Location:
    North Bend, WA
    #14 breser, Jan 24, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2015
    Some thoughts on this.

    First of all the title of this post is pretty bad. There is nothing that proves these numbers are based on the final torque sleep software. We still might get something that isn't exactly this. Could be better, could be worse (doubtful). The article mentions that the torque sleep software has been released, but links to an article about the range blog saying it was coming. So I think at least some of this article is just assumptions based on what Tesla has said so far. They're not necessarily wrong numbers, but it's deceptive to say that we know that these numbers are based on the final software.

    Second of all these are just exactly the same numbers as Tesla has been posting since the range blog. I find it highly unlikely that the EPA actually did any testing themselves (as the article implies) but it's possible. They only test 10-15% of the vehicles in a given year. But we've been over that many times before already.

    Presumably these are all with 19" wheels, since Tesla's posted numbers say they were on 19" wheels and these match (the image with the note 2 is actually from Tesla's range blog). Wonder what sort of effort Tesla had to go through to get the EPA to allow them to show the P85D range based on 19" wheels. Seriously doubt that fewer than 33% of P85Ds are expected to be on 21" wheels.

    What is new is the breakout between city/highway and combined as far as range. I'm really not sure where they got this breakout. They just show an image saying it's from a datafile posted above. Well where is this datafile? Really sloppy work in my opinion not to provide the sources.

    The 2015 Model S vehicles are on the fueleconomy.gov site (without the breakouts as given by insideevs):
    Compare Side-by-Side

    But these MPGe numbers don't jive with the range on that website. The city MPGe for the S85, 85D and P85D respectively are 88, 95, and 89. Yet the range posted to that site for city driving is 262.7, 257.1, and 242.3. How do you get more miles per energy unit in city driving but less range? The Gallon equivalents (Ge) for the highway range doesn't line up for highway either (though at least the differences in the numbers somewhat match). Take the highway range divided by the MPGe and that gives you each vehicles Ge. For the S85 you get 2.9644, for the 85D you get 2.6915 and for the P85D you get 2.7092. Using 33.7 kWh as the Gallon equivalent value you come up with 99.9018 kWh for the S85, 90.7039 kWh for the 85D and 91.2995 kWh for the P85D. It's not entirely surprising that these come out higher than the actual energy in the battery since we're using an average and the vehicle obviously is beating the average energy used for some of that range. What is surprising is how big of a gap there is between what the S85 and the 85D and P85D have and the fact that the 85D comes in behind the S85.

    Finally, one other thing to note the fueleconomy.gov lists different kWh/100 mile numbers for these three vehicles now. 38 kWh/100 miles for the S85, 34 kWh/100 miles for the 85D and 36 kWh/100 miles for the P85D. A lot of people critiqued the window stickers as not making sense because the P85D stickers we saw continued to show 38 kWh/100 miles.

    So I still think there are open questions here about the window stickers on the 85D and P85D.
     
  15. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2014
    Messages:
    5,392
    Location:
    Ithaca, NY
    One big question, if these really are some new EPA numbers, does concern the MPGe numbers and the P85D window sticker. The P85D Highway MPGe indicated a better highway mileage than the P85, but unless I'm not understanding something, the numbers in the chart don't correspond to that.

    So I agree that something about this isn't quite right.
     
  16. mdevp

    mdevp Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2014
    Messages:
    454
    Location:
    nj
    Apologies, I started the thread and I didn't have time to really look into any of the claims, I just trusted the article. Something is fishy b/c there's no mention if the sleep software was even actually used, its just assumed. I was on my way out the door for a lunch party, sry!
     
  17. darthy001

    darthy001 Love my car, hope Tesla can get as great!

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2012
    Messages:
    721
    Location:
    Bærum, Norway
    #17 darthy001, Jan 25, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2015
    Yes something does not add up. The numbers in the original post is not corresponding to the ones in your link. And that site is the official EPA-numbers right!?

    It shows an even higher highway-number for both D-models than previously seen on stickers. Also much higher than the "old" RWD 85s used to have. So once again I get even more confused as these new EPA-numbers once again leads me to believe that my car will have _more_ range than older RWD 85s on highway, but the Tesla-blog did not say so....

    my head hurts:confused:

    edit: P85D is actually listed with 8.8% higher highway-number then the 2015 RWD 85, and I believe the 2012-13-14 all showed 90 for that value as well?

    edit2: fun thing on fueleconomy.gov. You can personalize the input. 100% highway gives 266miles of range for the P85D....

    edit3: breser already did this:redface:
     
  18. Hvt1958

    Hvt1958 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2014
    Messages:
    203
    Hello heer from The Netherlands!
    In the Netherlands there is no trading program yet but to be announced soon.
    I am to purchase a P85D despite the weak Euro.
    I for that reason am following these threads on range quite well and I am not really interested in city range and it is good the highway range as not so much less than my current car.

    What I also wonder is whether there is going to be applied a same battery trick with new teslas as what was done with the roadsters, seems with same weight and dimensions the range increase with 30%!
    Think the limited numbers of these allow such a step, price unknown but is likely known soon. If reasonable priced it is great to replace the Battery and getting more range,
     
  19. LuckyLuke

    LuckyLuke Model S P85DL

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2011
    Messages:
    2,092
    Location:
    Eindhoven, The Netherlands
  20. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2012
    Messages:
    12,763
    Location:
    Texas
    The Roadster's battery is upgraded with Model S cells. The Model S already has the latest cells, so the next gain is speculated to be after the gigafactory is in volume production.
     

Share This Page