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Well crap. Add me to the sad list. How the hell do we really stop this? I'm seriously going to put time into a solution now. This happened tonight at about 9pm while at dinner in the Mission District, SF.
Just a super way to end an otherwise lovely evening. Return to the car with family and friends to find glass *everywhere* inside. And now the rains are coming. Perfect.
And now I'm glad that my dog wasn't actually in the car as she usually is. It would have terrified her, and the glass certainly could have harmed her. Man that stuff just goes into every nook and cranny. I don't think I'll ever get it all out.
Just a super way to end an otherwise lovely evening. Return to the car with family and friends to find glass *everywhere* inside. And now the rains are coming. Perfect.
And now I'm glad that my dog wasn't actually in the car as she usually is. It would have terrified her, and the glass certainly could have harmed her. Man that stuff just goes into every nook and cranny. I don't think I'll ever get it all out.
It isn't even a tiny bit of view. Honestly, from the driver seat, those windows do nothing for visibility. I have seriously considered having a stainless plate cut with a water jet, and then just gluing it over the glass. My worry is that they then try the next biggest window. I haven't ruled it out yet though!
jkoya
NA2 NSX
Wow - sorry to see that happened to you. There's a Holiday Inn in Elk Grove and several cars in the parking lot got their windows smashed over the New Years weekend. I hope you will be able to get the window replaced quickly. Sending you positive thoughts !
Yeah I've been seriously entertaining the idea of either replacing it with a sheet of lexan or cutting a piece to go over the glass. Your concern is same as mine though - does it just encourage escalation, i.e. breaking a larger window?
Thanks for the link, TEG, and for the sympathy wishes, jkoya....
Something has to change here. Maybe I'm repeating stuff from the MS thread, but...
The bottom line is that the risk/reward ratio needs to change. Currently - at least in the SF Bay Area - there is almost no risk, and the reward has huge potential. This is a quick and easy process with no consequences to the perpetrator.
A little can be done to make it harder to actually get in by protecting the glass better. But a lot can be done to make the rest of this process less rewarding. The seatbacks should be locked. There should be some type of alarm when there's motion INSIDE the locked car, and of course when glass is broken. Pin switches on those rear seats that sets off a siren? Tesla needs to at least update the alarm, and if that becomes somewhat effective at increasing risk for the would-be thief, the word will get out that it isn't quite so easy any longer (just like word has apparently spread like wildfire that 3's are currently such easy targets).
In the meantime... what is the deal with the "alarm" on the 3? Has anybody ever had it go off? Is there any way to test it? If I leave the window down, lock the car, and leave my phone in the house, I just go out there, reach in, press the door button and the car comes awake, and happily starts playing music and blowing HVAC. In what situation does it alarm? And what does the alarm actually do? Send a quiet alert to my phone that has the sound off while I eat dinner? As much as I hate false triggers, and as much as I know how people ignore alarms for the most part, it still IS a mild deterrent, and I was close enough to my car when this happened (out of my sight) that I would have heard an alarm! This smash and grab is almost silent. After I've typed this, I realize that there must be whole threads on this subject.... So many questions and projects, so little time.....
Something has to change here. Maybe I'm repeating stuff from the MS thread, but...
The bottom line is that the risk/reward ratio needs to change. Currently - at least in the SF Bay Area - there is almost no risk, and the reward has huge potential. This is a quick and easy process with no consequences to the perpetrator.
A little can be done to make it harder to actually get in by protecting the glass better. But a lot can be done to make the rest of this process less rewarding. The seatbacks should be locked. There should be some type of alarm when there's motion INSIDE the locked car, and of course when glass is broken. Pin switches on those rear seats that sets off a siren? Tesla needs to at least update the alarm, and if that becomes somewhat effective at increasing risk for the would-be thief, the word will get out that it isn't quite so easy any longer (just like word has apparently spread like wildfire that 3's are currently such easy targets).
In the meantime... what is the deal with the "alarm" on the 3? Has anybody ever had it go off? Is there any way to test it? If I leave the window down, lock the car, and leave my phone in the house, I just go out there, reach in, press the door button and the car comes awake, and happily starts playing music and blowing HVAC. In what situation does it alarm? And what does the alarm actually do? Send a quiet alert to my phone that has the sound off while I eat dinner? As much as I hate false triggers, and as much as I know how people ignore alarms for the most part, it still IS a mild deterrent, and I was close enough to my car when this happened (out of my sight) that I would have heard an alarm! This smash and grab is almost silent. After I've typed this, I realize that there must be whole threads on this subject.... So many questions and projects, so little time.....
Yeah, it is a tough call. But there is a reason they choose that small window even though that small window makes it tough to pull out anything of any reasonable size. It is easy, quiet and safest. The goal is to make things at least incrementally more difficult or risky. And each step up from punching those little windows at least accomplishes that. Breaking bigger glass is a bigger deal, prying the trunk is a bigger deal.
But yeah, driving home in the cold night with a hole in that little window was bad enough. Begin without the whole door glass would massively suck... especially now that it is raining....
I am starting to wonder why nobody just reaches in and pushes the door button after braking the window. I haven't tried but I guess that reach is too far. Still, I'm amazed at how deep they could reach into my trunk from that little window! Do they use a stick with a hook on it??
Akikiki
A'-Lo-HA ! y'all
PLEASE. None of us want this to happen to you. But before you replace that little window with steel plate or Lexan, price what a rear and front side window would cost versus the small qtr window. We would like to know what you find out.
Akikiki
A'-Lo-HA ! y'all
EVnut. I have no dog in your fight. I am just standing on the outside of the problem looking in. I agree with almost everything you say. But why is this a Tesla problem? And I think you are naive if you think Tesla is going to do something to change the car to accommodate break ins of this frequency in just one part of the country. Yes, I am confident in saying its not just SF area, but few reports of this magnitude about other places. Again, why is this a Tesla problem to fix? I hope, I am wrong, but I don't see it.
Mine went off when I was in SBUX. The wife was waiting in the car siting quietly, but then opened the door for some air. Since the M3 had locked when I walked away, the alarm went off.
But note, car alarms go off all the time in the urban core, so no one pays them any mind. Having the alarm go off when the glass breaks only makes the owner feel good. Crooks are in and out in seconds, so they won't care.
The only solution is a locking seat back, and/or moving the release handle from the interior to the trunk. But those are design changes that cost money. (Personally, I'd include a locking seat back as a standard with PUP.)
I appreciate the question and discussion.
I don't mean to imply that this is "Tesla's problem." I don't blame them for the fact that my car was just broken into. I just feel that this is something that Tesla could have done better from the get-go (at least as well as some other car makers?). Also that Tesla can improve things going forward. Much like they fixed the emergency braking problem. Like they improved the auto wipers. Like they improved the rear seats and headlights and bluetooth locking... and on and on. And most importantly like they improved the security system in the Model S and X.
This smash-and-grab thing may be frequent in "just one part of the country" right now. And we shouldn't dismiss the fact that this part of the country is where Tesla is headquartered, where Teslas are made, and where the density of ownership is largest. In the automotive world, Tesla is to the SF Bay area what CA is to the rest of the country. This is where the fat part of the market is. I'm not asking for Tesla to pay for my window. I'm asking them to think of some relatively simple things they can do (and then even charge for the update like they did with S and X security upgrade) to at least help send the message that Tesla's aren't such an easy target. It may be mostly only happening here NOW.... is it reasonable to thing that this won't spread as other areas become this dense with Teslas??
My car plays Atari games, shows a fire, and it farts. I'm just asking that a bit of engineering time and talent be redirected to something that could be actually useful for a significant percentage of us customers. My semi-educated guess is that they're already doing something to improve the security system.
Cheers,
After posting that, I've found the alarm threads that I knew would exist. And apparently I was testing incorrectly. The alarm does indeed go off if the door is opened from inside after being locked (my phone key simply was still to close when I tested). And I can see how the alarm could easily happen in the situation you describe with your wife (yikes, could she turn it off easily with the card that I hope she carries? Or did you have to return to shut it off?)
Yes, I know all too well about ignoring alarms... along with the annoyance they create. And yet.... at last in my specific case last night it would have helped me. I was within earshot, and just barely out of sight. Most notable is that the car could not detect or send an alert for this break-in... regardless of honking horns and flashing lights. I'm OK without an audible alarm. I'd be OK with a big squirt of bear repellant out a broken window.
I agree that the seat back latch should be implemented differently... and I agree that there likely will be no retrofit for current owners. Certainly they could improve that moving forward, and benefit future owners. In fitting with the rest of the car, I'd love to have seen a remote latch like the glove box... somewhat silly that the glove box is more secure than the trunk! But even easier and cheaper than what is currently implemented, is to have had the release in the trunk.
I get it. And I don't have to do any research. The answer is "lots more." There's no way to stop somebody who will break in at any cost. All we can do is try for the best balance of risk/reward/cost to protect our property. Protecting the small window doesn't automatically mean that a larger window will be broken. But it does increase that risk. They clearly *choose* to break only that small glass in most cases, and the main reason is that it is easiest and safest for them to achieve their goal. At least that little part of the equation is on our favor.
The "access" is through the huge opening left when the seats are folded down. For sure they have pulled stuff out through that "small" window... which is actually quite large. My Macbook Pro 13 will fit through the opening. Any camera would fit. I guess if there was something *big* and valuable, they'd open the door or break the larger window. Door would alarm, but they'd be gone in moments so it wouldn't matter.
Just the two problems with this. It assumes that people can see into a heavily-tinted car at night. And it assumes that everybody drives around without needing cargo.
Same answer as above. The "solution" that I keep hearing is that cars should have no trunk, and that no cargo should be carried. The main reason that I use a car for transportation is to move cargo that I can't haul on my bike.
It would require *everybody* to stop leaving anything in their car. Otherwise, the scumbags still have to check to see if there's something good hidden in there. And the idea of taking our overnight gear with us into a restaurant etc. just isn't gonna work.
Ok. I get it. And I appreciate that people want to help. I've heard these suggestions about 100 times now:
- Ensure that the car is empty every time it is parked.
- Don't park in the Bay Area.
- And of COURSE leave those rear seats down so that the thieves are sure the car is empty
Unfortunately, none of these suggestions allows me to use my car in a practical manner. There is rarely a reason for me to drive anywhere without gear. And there's no way to take it all with me every time I park. At that point, there's no reason to leave the seats down (for two reasons.... I HAVE stuff in the trunk, and nobody can see in the back of the car to determine that the seats are down).
I hear it. I really do. And I no longer need to hear these "solutions" to the problem that don't solve anything for me. The problem isn't the victims. It is the perpetrators. Any real solution involves going after the criminals, not going after the victims.
That said, here is what I've done on purpose that resulted in nothing being stolen from my smash and *not* grab last night:
Against the back of the seats in the trunk I shoved our tote bags that were full of clothing and towels. After that was "second tier" cargo. And then the "valuables" like my laptop and camera were placed in the sub-trunk completely out of sight and potentially forgotten (hell, even I forget to look there for stuff I can't find!).
When the scumbag reached in, only the clothing bags were available. Those were pulled up into the cabin and rifled through. Between getting past my tint, and spending the time poking through the dirty towels, the grab was given up.
So... nothing taken but the $500 wrapped up in that window. :sigh:
What Tesla can do is make that upper cover of the trunk below the rear window removable. It also give us slightly more space.
Any chance we can DIY it? I guess its not too solid to cut. But can some aftermarket manufacturers provide a removable replacement?
Another idea is to install proximity sensors on the car. Notify the owner when there is someone standing very close to the car longer than 30 sec. I believe any situation like that would worth a remote camera look. Even useful to avoid parking tickets.
Any chance we can DIY it? I guess its not too solid to cut. But can some aftermarket manufacturers provide a removable replacement?
Another idea is to install proximity sensors on the car. Notify the owner when there is someone standing very close to the car longer than 30 sec. I believe any situation like that would worth a remote camera look. Even useful to avoid parking tickets.
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you live in California - please purchase 0 deductible glass coverage, it will pay for itself in broken side windows and windshields
I think the anti theft system on cars should be redesigned. It should detect someone standing very close to the car longer than 30 seconds. The owner should receive a notification on their phones and see through cameras for deciding the reaction. This would even be useful to avoid parking tickets.
Akikiki
A'-Lo-HA ! y'all
Removal upper cover? You mean the back shelf? Even easier, why not just leave one or both of the back seats folded down? And it would help to put a LED light or strip of lights in there and leave it turned on when you leave the car. That would not require Tesla to make a design change. And even if Tesla did, changing it after 180,000 cars already built and sold would not help those of you with the car now.
Those folks considering cutting up your upper cover/back shelf might want to disassemble the seat latch and fix it so it does not work from the handle, eliminating the ease of folding the seat down from a hand stuck through a broken window. Frankly, I think the idea of disabling or changing the seat latch from top of seat to a trunk side release is just going to piss off a thief and risk them using the "thing" they are using to break the window slice open your seat - for spite.
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