Your previous remark that Norway is just one country, stands. But still, it used to be a pretty important country. If it stays at these comparatively low levels, that means demand in other countries need to pick up even more to make guidance. I remain on the sidelines for now, there is just too much possibility for a big guidance adjustment.
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RobStark
Well-Known Member
| PI | Europe | Sept | 2015 | % | 14 PI |
| 1 | Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV | 2,849 | 19,574 | 16 | 1 |
| 2 | Nisan LEAF | 1,890 | 12,761 | 11 | 2 |
| 3 | Renault Zoe | 1,649 | 11,693 | 10 | 3 |
| 4 | Tesla Model S | 1,059 | 10,626 | 9 | 4 |
| 5 | VW Golf GTE | 1,192 | 10,226 | 9 | 22 |
| 6 | VW e-Golf | 760 | 8,665 | 7 | 9 |
| 7 | Audi A3 e-Tron | 824 | 7,964 | 7 | 19 |
| 8 | BMW i3 | 896 | 7,360 | 6 | 5 |
| 9 | Volvo V60 PHEV | 418 | 3,577 | 3 | 7 |
| 10 | Kia Soul EV | 625 | 2,897 | 2 | 23 |
http://ev-sales.blogspot.com/2015/10/europe-september-2015.html#comment-form
Benz
Active Member
"Tesla Model S Sales Just Behind Mercedes-Benz S-Class In Europe"
Link: http://insideevs.com/tesla-model-s-sales-just-behind-mercedes-benz-s-class-in-europe/
Link: http://insideevs.com/tesla-model-s-sales-just-behind-mercedes-benz-s-class-in-europe/
RobStark
Well-Known Member
The Mercedes S-class had a relatively recent design refresh, so I think it's very encouraging that the externally-3-year-old Model S has nearly caught it. Of course the Model S (even the ones already on the road!) just had a refresh... just not the body shape.
It should also be worth mentioning, that while the report talks about estimates, we have pretty solid official registration numbers from Europe. In fact, our own EU Wiki shows 10,689 for Europe, so the data they collected checks out.
Aren't Mercedes S class sales actually up compared to several years ago? The implication is that Tesla is taking Mercedes S series sales. This may not be true. I suspect most buyers were previously mid tier car owners. Comparing Tesla sales to all Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Lexus and infiniti sales would be a whole lot less dramatic.
Considering tax credit, fuel costs, and purchase price in Europe, the entry S class Mercedes is a considerably more expensive car than the entry level Tesla in some (most?) of the EU.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
S Class sales were way up in 2014 and Q1 2015. Down since then. Tesla is almost assuredly taking marginal S Class sales. The rest of the segment is down(Panamera) or flat.
Most buyers in the segment are new to the segment. Stepping up from the E Class 5 Series segment. This is especially true for Model S owners because they are 20 years younger on avg than S Class owners. And S Class does have the highest repeat business in the class, largely corelated to the fact they have the oldest owners.
Comparing Tesla to the entire Brand of Mercedes would be less dramatic because Tesla does not yet have competitors in every segment therefore not taking customers from Mercedes in every segment. Tesla is just competing against ~5% of Mercedes sales.
S Class starts at roughly 22k Euros more than Tesla before various taxes. It should be taxed at far higher rates and dirtier fuel should be taxed at far higher rates than less dirty fuel. Considering all the damage pollution does. Mercedes nor any of ICEv makers should be allowed to simply pass on the financial burden of their pollution to the taxpayer.
Happened to Cadillac in the U.S. It's dangerous for Mercedes to lose the position as the aspirational mainstream car. I assume many C class sales happen because of the position of the S class.
Cadillac makes some very good cars again. But has a huge negative image among many buyers simply because it was once at the top.
Cadillac makes some very good cars again. But has a huge negative image among many buyers simply because it was once at the top.
I still think that comparing Tesla MS to S-class/A8/7-series is wrong if you want a good understanding of potential sales, the car markets, etc.
Norway accounts for a lot of the sales in europe, and price wise a MS is in reach for a normal good income middle class household. The others are not.
In other countries like sweden the MS is pricier than most cars but the 70 is still within reach for many higher income households while the others are not.
Norway accounts for a lot of the sales in europe, and price wise a MS is in reach for a normal good income middle class household. The others are not.
In other countries like sweden the MS is pricier than most cars but the 70 is still within reach for many higher income households while the others are not.
SebastianR
Active Member
I agree on this one. In DK (until now) a Model S is about as expensive as an entry level Audi A6 / well specked Audi A4 - this is a far cry from the S-Class in terms of money. Still it is great to see that number of sales for an Audi A6 are pretty much at par as the number of sales for a Model S in DK.
IMHO Comparing Europe as a continent is not really helpful in this case as there are too many regional differences that actually matter.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
In Sweden a BMW 730d starts at 898,200 sek.
In Sweden a Tesla Model S 70d starts at 854,950 sek.
In Sweden an Audi A8 starts at 828,000 sek.
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Guys, Norway and Denmark are very important markets for Tesla and this year they should account for about 10% of sales. However they are definitely the exception in pricing: As far as I know Model S is in the luxury sedan bracket everywhere else.
Taxes on purchase don't tell the whole story. For example in the Netherlands, cars provided as an incentive by companies to employees get taxed (yearly) as income for that employee. Difference between a model S and a 7 series here is easily 15k EUR... every single year of ownership(!). On top of that after purchase by a company, that company has a favorable (>100%) tax deduction as a 'green investment' for the car which it wouldn't have with a non-EV car. Not surprisingly, all model S sales in the Netherlands are as company cars through this scheme. The difference is fiscal incentive is truly is difficult to overstate.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
We all know about the incentives in Norway, The Netherlands, and expiring incentives in Denmark.
Tesla is doing really well in Belgium and Switzerland.
What are the special incentives in Belgium and Switzerland that are pushing Tesla forward?
It seems Tesla is also starting to gain traction in Sweden and Austria. What are the special incentives here?
Tesla is doing really well in Belgium and Switzerland.
What are the special incentives in Belgium and Switzerland that are pushing Tesla forward?
It seems Tesla is also starting to gain traction in Sweden and Austria. What are the special incentives here?
I agree with Rob here. Yes, incentives in 2-3 Northern European states have been great and no doubt helped sales. But this constitutes to about 10% of Tesla's global volume, so while important, does not single handedly explain why the Model S will handsomely beat BMW7 and Audi A8 sales globally and has a chance of catching the No1 spot ahead of the S Class in some countries like Switzerland where people are some of the richest in Europe and could by either. And even in the US, sure the 7500 federal and some local tax credits surely help, but the Model S has an ASP north of 100k - i would think in that price range purchase decisions are much less impacted by incentives. (Maybe help justifying the buy for the wife
)Anyway, what class a car belongs to is not really dependent on local taxes, incentives and discounts. It has much more to do with the car size, performance and luxury, plus the MSRP. But yes, in those 3 countries it would be unfair to claim the Model S captured the top spot on merit alone, when it costs about as much as a Passat.
Yes, on paper - but the gov'mt has so far failed to refill the coffers so the allowance is expected to have run out in July. Hard to tell exactly, because the backlog is big, the authority is still turning over the papers for cars registered in May, June and July. During last week the amount paid out equaled three (3) cars ... this week so far no update at all! Mine was registered the first week of July so I'm waiting anxiously.
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