Extremely disappointed with the product and my experience with my P85+

[aznt1217]

miamimd do you have any updates?

 

[Nathan Smith]

When you buy a brand new, revolutionary automobile design in its first year of production from a company that has never produced a vehicle like this or in this type of scale before, it's naive to expect a trouble-free experience filled with perfection. I don't know what some people are expecting, especially since problem reports are available here and at the TM forums for all to see. I did a tremendous amount of research before I pulled the trigger. I hoped for the best but did expect to have some issues. As it turns out, I ended up with some of the common issues reported here and elsewhere. I have had those issues addressed to my satisfaction and now the car is as close to perfect as I could reasonably expect.

Sure, it's bothersome to have problems with a car in this price range. But to not expect problems just because of the high price is being totally naive and ignoring the reality. I do recommend this car to friends and people who ask me about it, but I also tell them to expect issues.

Ok, what other industry do you evaluate a product based on the newness off the company (even though Tesla isn't new)? Or evaluate a product by the design (even though the Model S isn't THAT revolutionary) alone? For me, I evaluate a product by how well it does the things it promised to do. If I am going to pay a premium, I expect a premium product. At this price point, I would EXPECT nothing less. I expect a better overall experience than I had with my Honda Accord, which was 1/4 the cost. Generally speaking, I don't care about the age of the company - just the product please.

And contrary to popular belief on the forum, 90% of the Model S isn't *new* or revolutionary. Having trouble with a steering wheel, for example, whould be TOTALLY unacceptable. Having troubles with Panoramo roofs is a bit more acceptable, as I hear (rumors mostly) that most manufactores that offer them have some issues with them as well. Having troubles with the batteries, should not be expected (as were not Beta testers) - but is a lot more acceptable than say creaking noises.

I, and owner, has put in a significant investment into this purchuse and should have nothing short of the highest expectation for it. Tesla gave no notice of this being a car in development, nor did they call us Beta testers - instead we ARE owners of the most amazing car on Earth... And should have expectation for such.

All that said, everyone/everything falls short of expectations from time-to-time. When it happens, Tesla needs to ensure its owners are returned to the expected levels ASAP with as little pain/additional cost to the proud owners.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Ok, what other industry do you evaluate a product based on the newness off the company (even though Tesla isn't new)? Or evaluate a product by the design (even though the Model S isn't THAT revolutionary) alone? For me, I evaluate a product by how well it does the things it promised to do. If I am going to pay a premium, I expect a premium product. At this price point, I would EXPECT nothing less. I expect a better overall experience than I had with my Honda Accord, which was 1/4 the cost. Generally speaking, I don't care about the age of the company - just the product please.

And contrary to popular belief on the forum, 90% of the Model S isn't *new* or revolutionary. Having trouble with a steering wheel, for example, whould be TOTALLY unacceptable. Having troubles with Panoramo roofs is a bit more acceptable, as I hear (rumors mostly) that most manufactores that offer them have some issues with them as well. Having troubles with the batteries, should not be expected (as were not Beta testers) - but is a lot more acceptable than say creaking noises.

I, and owner, has put in a significant investment into this purchuse and should have nothing short of the highest expectation for it. Tesla gave no notice of this being a car in development, nor did they call us Beta testers - instead we ARE owners of the most amazing car on Earth... And should have expectation for such.

All that said, everyone/everything falls short of expectations from time-to-time. When it happens, Tesla needs to ensure its owners are returned to the expected levels ASAP with as little pain/additional cost to the proud owners.

Tesla is a new and unproven company compared to GM, Honda, Toyota, Ford, etc. GM has been around for 100 years, Tesla barely 10 years. GM makes many different models, by the many millions. Prior to the Model S, Tesla had only designed and hand assembled fewer than 1,500 Roadsters. Using your example... having trouble with a steering wheel would be totally unacceptable from GM, a company which makes many millions of them and has done so for many decades. Model S is Tesla's first car to use power steering, and many aspects of the steering system are a first for Tesla. I'm not talking about what's common in the industry, I'm talking about what is new for Tesla. Model S is totally new and a bold departure from anything Tesla had done in the past. New battery design, new undercarriage/chassis, new steering system, new electronics, new suspension system, new everything. Model S is Tesla's first automated production car as well, first ever vehicle for Tesla to roll off a robotic assembly line. You simply cannot have the same expectations of initial quality from Tesla that you do of Audi, Mercedes, BMW, etc.

Each person is in charge of their own expectations, and it's the expectation (whether realistic or not) that determines whether someone is satisfied with a particular experience. My expectations were moderate given the newness of this vehicle design and the fact that it incorporates design and technology that are a first for Tesla. Mistakes will happen and improvements will be made in the future. Sure, it would be great to get everything right the first time, but given the reality, anyone who is expecting a trouble-free run probably has the wrong expectations.

That's just my opinion.

 

[Shumdit]

Tesla is a new and unproven company compared to GM, Honda, Toyota, Ford, etc. GM has been around for 100 years, Tesla barely 10 years. GM makes many different models, by the many millions. Prior to the Model S, Tesla had only designed and hand assembled fewer than 1,500 Roadsters. Using your example... having trouble with a steering wheel would be totally unacceptable from GM, a company which makes many millions of them and has done so for many decades. Model S is Tesla's first car to use power steering, and many aspects of the steering system are a first for Tesla. I'm not talking about what's common in the industry, I'm talking about what is new for Tesla. Model S is totally new and a bold departure from anything Tesla had done in the past. New battery design, new undercarriage/chassis, new steering system, new electronics, new suspension system, new everything. Model S is Tesla's first automated production car as well, first ever vehicle for Tesla to roll off a robotic assembly line. You simply cannot have the same expectations of initial quality from Tesla that you do of Audi, Mercedes, BMW, etc.

Each person is in charge of their own expectations, and it's the expectation (whether realistic or not) that determines whether someone is satisfied with a particular experience. My expectations were moderate given the newness of this vehicle design and the fact that it incorporates design and technology that are a first for Tesla. Mistakes will happen and improvements will be made in the future. Sure, it would be great to get everything right the first time, but given the reality, anyone who is expecting a trouble-free run probably has the wrong expectations.

That's just my opinion.

Well said, and I agree. To me it's amazing the car is a good as it is from both a QC and design standpoint. I think things like the b-pillar wear are something a more established company already learned years or even decades ago and avoided a design like that as a result, but it does not mean I think Tesla is to be criticized for not figuring it out before it went into production. I hope they will find a "fix" for issues like that, but so far I have been impressed with the way that they have addressed many issues that have arisen.

 

[eAdopter]

I think what Nathan is trying to express is that expectations can (should?) vary by price point. Comments by @AR and others are correct and would seem fitting for many cars, maybe even for a $80k car. However, I think Nathan had higher expectations for a $110k+ car. While I can understand how some people are reasonable to cut TM slack because of circumstances, it's also reasonable to have very high expectations at the P85 price point. Each argument has valid points, and because they contain a lot of opinion, neither is wrong. Does this argument really need to continue? Can each side simply say "Yes, I see what you mean." and move on?

 

[jerry33]

Does this argument really need to continue? Can each side simply say "Yes, I see what you mean." and move on?

Works for me. I'd suggest that with a Tesla you are purchasing about $20K of pre-paid fuel, so expectations should be about $20K less than the actual sticker price.

 

[wormhole]

Hasn't this thread really gone on long enough? No one has the right to tell another person whether or not their expectations are out of line or otherwise. The OP has a right to feel how he feels. Just as the fan boys and girls have a right to feel how they feel. Hopefully the OP's issues have been resolved. I'd suggest this thread gets closed and we all move on.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

I think what Nathan is trying to express is that expectations can (should?) vary by price point. Comments by @AR and others are correct and would seem fitting for many cars, maybe even for a $80k car. However, I think Nathan had higher expectations for a $110k+ car. While I can understand how some people are reasonable to cut TM slack because of circumstances, it's also reasonable to have very high expectations at the P85 price point. Each argument has valid points, and because they contain a lot of opinion, neither is wrong. Does this argument really need to continue? Can each side simply say "Yes, I see what you mean." and move on?

Agreed.

 

[C-NRG-GO]

My car is at a service center for the swaying problem you described. Did that problem get fixed? What was done? Thanks in advance!

 

[Larry Chanin]

2. NEW UNNERVING SWERVING WHEN ACCELERATING AND DECELERATING. The rear end of the car would fishtail or swerve making the handeling extremely bad and feeling unsafe . I am 100% sure this is due to suspension parts becoming loose. In a brand new 130K+ car this should not be happening and should not be accepted. Reported this issue yesterday and I am still waiting for a phone call to schedule the repair. The car has new tires well balanced and aligned. Rechecked this yesterday.

My car is at a service center for the swaying problem you described. Did that problem get fixed? What was done? Thanks in advance!

My Model S had a left-right swaying problem under very hard accelaration. When I took it in for a tire rotation at 6,600 miles the Tampa Service Center also applied various Service Bulletins and did a four wheel alignment. Problem solved.

I experienced this problem even when the car was new, but because I rarely accelarate to that degree I procrastinated since the problem only manifested itself three times. I believe the alignment was off ever since it was delivered, perhaps due to the transportation process. Regardless, an alignment resolved the issue for me.

Its possible that my situation is different than the doctor since my problem wasn't exactly fishtailing where the rear end comes out. To me it felt like the car moved rapidly left-right. It was nevertheless unnerving especially to my passengers. On the last occasion I had two other club members with me when we were traveling to a Supercharging ribbon-cutting ceremony. When accelarating hard out of a rest stop the problem manifested and my passengers were screaming like girls. :wink:

Larry

 

[C-NRG-GO]

My Model S had a left-right swaying problem under very hard accelaration. When I took it in for a tire rotation at 6,600 miles the Tampa Service Center also applied various Service Bulletins and did a four wheel alignment. Problem solved.

I experienced this problem even when the car was new, but because I rarely accelarate to that degree I procrastinated since the problem only manifested itself three times. I believe the alignment was off ever since it was delivered, perhaps due to the transportation process. Regardless, an alignment resolved the issue for me.

Its possible that my situation is different than the doctor since my problem wasn't exactly fishtailing where the rear end comes out. To me it felt like the car moved rapidly left-right. It was nevertheless unnerving especially to my passengers. On the last occasion I had two other club members with me when we were traveling to a Supercharging ribbon-cutting ceremony. When accelarating hard out of a rest stop the problem manifested and my passengers were screaming like girls. :wink:

Larry

Larry, thank you so much. I have exactly the same problem you had. My car had 4300 miles on it when I took possession and it had been shipped from New York. I noticed it on the drive home from the SC - whoa what was that? Then I took it out for a spin a few days later, and I punch it, the car sways back and forth a few times, so I take my foot completely off the accelerator and it happens again even a little worse. Had it flatbedded the next day and I'm hoping to get it back soon with rail like handling Cheers.

 

[Larry Chanin]

Larry, thank you so much. I have exactly the same problem you had. My car had 4300 miles on it when I took possession and it had been shipped from New York. I noticed it on the drive home from the SC - whoa what was that? Then I took it out for a spin a few days later, and I punch it, the car sways back and forth a few times, so I take my foot completely off the accelerator and it happens again even a little worse. Had it flatbedded the next day and I'm hoping to get it back soon with rail like handling Cheers.

I have never experienced this problem on deaccelaration.

Larry

 

[C-NRG-GO]

I have never experienced this problem on deaccelaration.

Larry

UPDATE: The SC did a rear alignment and the handling is spot on now. Swerving issue gone. What used to be a 90 minute bore of a drive is now like a ride at Disneyland!

 

[mandfunk]

So you got ****** off because there were interior trim issues and a small misalignment of the hood in the past and that the new swerving issue didn't get fixed in 1 day (you mention that you told the SC yesterday). The pano not getting fixed I can understand, but to go so far overboard with planning to tout to everyone in the media about small issues that happen in a startup company seems a bit overreacting. Sure, going to SC four times is annoying and you should escalate, but your attitude is over the board. Hope you get your stuff fixed and recommend not getting ahead of yourself with the cancellations. Have a nice drink and chill out a bit before making big decisions, recommend that also while you are with your patients

Well said Mario!

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Guys when I said media I was referring to the forums.

Sorry, but I have to call BS on this...you originally said: "am communicating with all of you through this email as I will share my experience with current, future and possible costumers in the media. "

Its pretty clear to all of us that this was meant as a threat and that you clearly didn't mean only TMC. From the sounds of it, perhaps the local SC is just fed up with the attitude. I can understand some frustration, but how bad is it really when the local SC is coming to you, dropping off another Tesla loaner, doing the repairs for free, and then delivering your car back to you again, at no cost? Even if they don't get it right the first time, it costs you practically nothing in time or money, and in the meantime you are wracking up free miles on the loaner car.

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The guy is ****** and thats OK.

There are plenty of P85+ customers who have zero issues. If you believe that buying a german luxury car is an insurance for not having issues with a brand new car you are dead wrong! I bought a brand new Audi TT 8J in germany . From day one I had issues with power management (car feeling as if it has 20 HP - literally it barely moved), and brakes.

So true...I had $100,000 Mercedes S class for years. After about 50,000 miles, it was in the shop for something about every 6 months, and each visit averaged about a grand every visit!