Fatal autopilot crash, NHTSA investigating...

[Breezy]

This crash occured on May 7 and we're just hearing about it now because of NHTSA. In the meantime Tesla continues to tout the safety benefits of Autopilot, even in the very blog post where they announce this tragic death.

Elon tweeted a video of this same driver being "saved" by Autopilot just two weeks after it was posted to YouTube in early April. But the same driver dies in an accident involving Autopilot and we don't find out until 8 weeks later. That original video was still generating comments about the wonders of Autopilot, after he had been killed.

 

[Electroman]

Breezy: What is that, that bothers you ?

Seat belt saves lives. People die even while wearing seat belts.

For those who say he would not have died if his car did not have AP, you could also take it one-step more and say he would not have died if he had not been driving at all.

 

[JeffK]

CNBC video update on the crash via twitter
pic.twitter.com/qoZjd6jt62

 

[Electricfan]

but there is a reason why McDonald's coffee cups have "caution: hot liquids" written all over them and autopilot is NOT for everyone.

Stella Liebeck had her life ruined by McDonald's hot coffee, but she stood up to the giant corporation and your life and mine are safer for it. You should read up on her - she's was a courageous woman and I admire her.

HOT COFFEE, a documentary feature film

 

[Todd Burch]

Everyone is panicking, predicting doom and gloom. Utter nonsense. Why?

While tragic, this is one fatality over 130+ million miles. It's not symptomatic of a major issue--and given the mounting evidence that the Tesla driver may have been watching a movie (DVD player found in car, mention of Harry Potter), it seems this was all really a result of driver error.

The sky is not falling.

 

[Newscutter]

DVD player found in Tesla Model S in May 7 crash -Fla officials

DETROIT, July 1 (Reuters) - The Florida Highway Patrol said on Friday that it found an aftermarket digital video disc (DVD) player in the wreckage of a Tesla Motors Inc Model S involved in a fatal May 7 crash.

"There was a portable DVD player in the vehicle," said Sergeant Kim Montes of the Florida Highway Patrol in a telephone interview.

She said there was no camera found, mounted on the dash or of any kind, in the wreckage.

.

I believe he had children, so it is possible the player was there for use by the backseat passengers and not in use at the time... but given the description of the crash's aftermath, it sounds (literally) like the player was operating afterwards. Could it have been turned on by the impact? Possibly.

Also possible that Mr. Brown had a heart attack or stroke or something else that incapacitated him prior to the crash.

There are still many unknowns--- and as much as I want to place the blame solely on the truck driver, I can't get around one simple fact:

He didn't push the brake. He didn't react at all.

A huge truck passing in front of him on a wide flat highway where it should have been enormously obvious... and no reaction from Mr. Brown whatsoever. It's really all I need to know as far as the role Autopilot played.

 

[Todd Burch]

And I'm sure Tesla released a blog post when NHTSA started an investigation because it would be picked up by the media and yes, they wanted to preempt the FUD.

 

[JeffK]

And I'm sure Tesla released a blog post when NHTSA started an investigation because it would be picked up by the media and yes, they wanted to preempt the FUD.

It's in Tesla's best interest to tell people NHTSA is investigating the incident, but you cannot very well post that they are investigating before the investigation opens... They had no choice but to wait until after Jun 28th when it was officially opened.

 

[Max*]

It's in Tesla's best interest to tell people NHTSA is investigating the incident, but you cannot very well post that they are investigating before the investigation opens... They had no choice but to wait until after Jun 28th when it was officially opened.

Serious question: Can you point me to where it says that Tesla can not state that there was an accident with the driver using AP, where he was killed, without mentioning an ongoing NHTSA investigation?

IANAL, nor a traffic safety engineer, so I don't know all the rules and regulations, but unless there is some rule about that, then they could have come out a month ago and stated this.

 

[Stoneymonster]

Serious question: Can you point me to where it says that Tesla can not state that there was an accident with the driver using AP, where he was killed, without mentioning an ongoing NHTSA investigation?

IANAL, nor a traffic safety engineer, so I don't know all the rules and regulations, but unless there is some rule about that, then they could have come out a month ago and stated this.

Does every other car manufacturer publicize every death in their cars? I'll leave the reason why not as an exercise to the reader.

 

[JeffK]

Serious question: Can you point me to where it says that Tesla can not state that there was an accident with the driver using AP, where he was killed, without mentioning an ongoing NHTSA investigation?

There's not a rule preventing it AFAIK... It's more of a business decision to protect investors. it's always unwise to cause a panic.

 

[Electricfan]

This crash occured on May 7 and we're just hearing about it now because of NHTSA. In the meantime Tesla continues to tout the safety benefits of Autopilot, even in the very blog post where they announce this tragic death.

Elon tweeted a video of this same driver being "saved" by Autopilot just two weeks after it was posted to YouTube in early April. But the same driver dies in an accident involving Autopilot and we don't find out until 8 weeks later. That original video was still generating comments about the wonders of Autopilot, after he had been killed.

That's spooky isn't it - people watching that video after he died in an AP related accident - listening to him saying how great AP was.

I promise you he wasn't the only one placing too much trust in AP. But now that this is public, hopefully some people will be a little more careful and some lives will be saved. I certainly escaped with my life - when AP first came out I assumed Tesla would never release it if it wasn't totally safe. Wrong.

I'm very curious what Tesla's going to do for the AP 1.0 owners when they put AP 2.0 out. They haven't made it easy to upgrade old equipment in the past, but maybe they had a little more foresight with this, since it has such a liability associated with it. I would pay them good money to upgrade my AP to 2.0 for sure.

 

[Electroman]

They have a moral obligation to write about an accident that was conclusively caused because of AP malfunction.

Why would they want to write about an accident that may not have anything to do with AP at all?

 

[tinm]

They have a moral obligation to write about an accident that was conclusively caused because of AP malfunction.

Why would they want to write about an accident that may not have anything to do with AP at all?

I have seen no official report stating that the accident was "conclusively caused because of AP malfunction."

It's not a "malfunction" if it is not designed to do something. If it is not designed to detect cross-traffic, then it should not be used on roads with cross traffic. Which basically limits it to freeways. Which I believe Tesla has always said, only use on freeways, no? If this driver, like many Tesla drivers I suspect, uses it beyond freeways, well . . . you awaken the Probability beast.

 

[Grendal]

CNBC video update on the crash via twitter
pic.twitter.com/qoZjd6jt62

It's very sad that this guys life is now the object of national speculation. If he was being inattentive and this led to his demise, it is too bad that we all have to hear about it. As human beings, we all make many mistakes every day. As I wrote in another comment elsewhere, Autopilot is a bit like smoking. People are told over and over that smoking is unhealthy for you and plenty of people still smoke. Tesla can warn people over and over not to be inattentive but they might do it just the same.

 

[Gynob001]

Interesting posts from Tesla supporters, autopilot supporters, driver victim supporters, ...
Few critical and doubtful of the truck driver..
Few concerned about abuse of the system and Tesla recommendations..
Few critical of the news media which has written different accounts of the accident
So far no conspiracy theory implicating other electric car makers, gas car manufacturers, ..
And many from those who just criticize anything that others write

 

[msnow]

I don't necessarily disagree with you, and in fact I agree with much of your position, but when you use words like "sincerity" in reference to a corporation, you lose me. Words like honest, sincere, truthful, etc. don't apply to any corporation, as far as I am concerned. All corporations exist solely to create profit for the shareholders, and to do so within the law (hopefully). That's where sincerity and truthfulness end for them, with compliance with the law and no more.

However, I find Elon Musk to be sincere. Flawed, of course, like all humans (and much less than most), but overall he certainly seems like a very sincere person to me.

Not necessarily. Some companies can make a profit and do so with integrity. They are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Stoneymonster]

I have seen no official report stating that the accident was "conclusively caused because of AP malfunction."

It's not a "malfunction" if it is not designed to do something. If it is not designed to detect cross-traffic, then it should not be used on roads with cross traffic. Which basically limits it to freeways. Which I believe Tesla has always said, only use on freeways, no? If this driver, like many Tesla drivers I suspect, uses it beyond freeways, well . . . you awaken the Probability beast.

You two are agreeing.

 

[JeffK]

Interesting posts from Tesla supporters, autopilot supporters, driver victim supporters, ...
Few critical and doubtful of the truck driver..
Few concerned about abuse of the system and Tesla recommendations..
Few critical of the news media which has written different accounts of the accident
So far no conspiracy theory implicating other electric car makers, gas car manufacturers, ..
And many from those who just criticize anything that others write

Could be a Florida conspiracy ... a lot of bad crap seems to be coming out of Florida recently.

 

[Max*]

Does every other car manufacturer publicize every death in their cars? I'll leave the reason why not as an exercise to the reader.

I answered that question several pages ago.

Something along the lines of: This is the first death relating to AP, this isn't a "typical" accident.

I never said it's the first death where AP was at fault, it's RELATING to AP. Tesla took the chance, 45 days later (I didn't do the math, quoting someone here) to make a bad event into a PR opportunity about how tragic it is, but, hey, looky here, we're doing better than the average!

That's my only gripe about the blog post. Either do it way before the investigation to truly get ahead of it, don't do it at all, or don't try to make it sound sincere (and I know Canuuk doesn't like that word associated with corporations ).