Fatal autopilot crash, NHTSA investigating...

[Gilzo]

I'm an insurance defence lawyer and have been for over 25 years. You need a "cause of action" to commence an action. So far, there is one cause of action with this unfortunate death. Please ask your dad how many "salivating lawyers" can sign up his administrator or executor in order to commence the legal action? Or, is he suggesting a class action over this one accident? If so, ask him if he thinks that class action is likely to be certified, and if so, what the damages are to the Plaintiffs (other than this lead Plaintiff, if that is what he is proposing).

Tesla has insurance and this case will be settled without seeing a court room, and the insurer for the truck driver will be paying for the majority of the settlement. But litigation is costly, and Tesla won't want any press or precedent, so they will be paying too.

That's my guess.

He did say if it would ever to proceed it would likely be settled out of court. But that doesn't negate lawyers wouldn't be trying. I'm guessing if the family wanted to proceed with a lawsuit, there wouldnt be any shortage of lawyers willing to take that case.
My father has been a lawyer for 33 years. I didn't say he would pursue it, I simply implied he could see the lawyers licking their chops. I've witnessed many other lawsuits with much less merit...so this wouldn't surprise me one bit if it proceeded.

 

[Pruitt]

Hang on to your hats, folks.

Warranted or not, the outcome of the NHTSA investigation and/or the upcoming almost-certain legal action against Tesla might result in Tesla deactivating or more severely limiting Autopilot functionality as part of a settlement/agreement. (if someone else already posted this, my apologies for the repetition. I read a lot of the thread, but not all of it)

 

[Matias]

I believe this accident (as accidents in general) has multiple causes:
1)Truck driver violeted the law
2)Propably Tesla driver violeted the law
3)AP has it's shortcomings
4)US trailer regulations don't require side impact protection

versus

 

[Canuck]

He did say if it would ever to proceed it would likely be settled out of court. But that doesn't negate lawyers wouldn't be trying. I'm guessing if the family wanted to proceed with a lawsuit, there wouldnt be any shortage of lawyers willing to take that case.
My father has been a lawyer for 33 years. I didn't say he would pursue it, I simply implied he could see the lawyers licking their chops. I've witnessed many other lawsuits with much less merit...so this wouldn't surprise me one bit if it proceeded.

Of course his next of kin can pursue a legal action and in all likelihood there will be one, especially against the truck driver, who will third party in Tesla if Tesla is not already a defendant. I wasn't taking issue with that. I took issue with him saying: "After speaking with him, he assured me that the lawyers are salivating right now. In his words, the vultures are circling."

I disagree. That happens with cases like VW emission fraud, asbestos in drywall, and I could go on and on when it comes to product liability cases. This is not one of those case, in my opinion.

 

[Gilzo]

Of course his next of kin can pursue a legal action and in all likelihood there will be one, especially against the truck driver, who will third party in Tesla if Tesla is not already a defendant. I wasn't taking issue with that. I took issue with him saying: "After speaking with him, he assured me that the lawyers are salivating right now. In his words, the vultures are circling."

I disagree. That happens with cases like VW emission fraud, asbestos in drywall, and I could go on and on when it comes to product liability cases. This is not one of those case, in my opinion.

I get what you're saying, and I hope you're right. Time will tell.

 

[Gilzo]

Hang on to your hats, folks.

Warranted or not, the outcome of the NHTSA investigation and/or the upcoming almost-certain legal action against Tesla might result in Tesla deactivating or more severely limiting Autopilot functionality as part of a settlement/agreement. (if someone else already posted this, my apologies for the repetition. I read a lot of the thread, but not all of it)

I pretty much agree with you on this. Right, wrong or indifferent, my gut tells me a storm is coming and it'll impact AP or tacc

 

[zambono]

I pretty much agree with you on this. Right, wrong or indifferent, my gut tells me a storm is coming and it'll impact AP or tacc

Maybe for the better, if we paid for an option that is disabled we should get refunded or better we should get the next version retrofited

 

[Canuck]

Maybe for the better, if we paid for an option that is disabled we should get refunded or better we should get the next version retrofited

We're getting way ahead of ourselves here. As said by someone here, seatbelts kill people, airbags kill people, cruise control kills people. The likelihood that AP will be disabled after the millions of miles of safe driving before this tragedy seems remote, in my opinion.

 

[ZAKEEUS]

Well, I'm a truck driver and this is very interesting to me. Is there any info about the speed limit on the road, how fast the Tesla was driving? Was he coming over a hill. I also live in the south and this terrible road design is everywhere.

 

[22522]

The radar seems too low to get a good return off a flat surface presented by the side of a semi trailer. The radar source and receiver may need to be at the top of the A-Pillars and perhaps coordinated to act as an array.

 

[Magus]

This idea that legal action will result in autopilot deactivation is more of this media junkie hype. Put in all the variables and vehicle with AEB and the outcome would have likely been the same or worse. The legal system actually generally works logically. But you would never know it because you only hear the junkie hyped and only most negative and dramatic news the media puts out.

 

[JeffK]

I think some folks need to stop blaming this entire thing on the truck driver (that he is lying etc). The idea that somehow because the guy was a navy seal he is less likely to be at fault than a driver with millions of miles behind the wheel is ridiculous.

The law doesn't care who has more experience, when crossing oncoming traffic you must yield!

 

[3Victoria]

EM has already tweeted that the radar return from the truck's side would have been interpreted as an overhead sign, and therefore the AP did not brake for it. (Consider that the camera could likely see the roadway and markings continuing under the truck. AFAIK, the radar is not 2D, so the height of an object is probably not reported, only its distance. So I speculate that the interpretation is: there is a stationary object ahead, but the road continues, therefore it is an overhead sign. However the driver remains in control of the car and responsible to react. )

Other car companies have had recalls when they mistakenly braked for such things as plates in the roadway and overhead signs. There are lots of stationary objects while driving such as signs and road patches, etc. and these need to be filtered out by the AP software. Tesla is quite specific about this in the manual. "Warning: Traffic-Aware Cruise Control can not detect all objects and may not detect a stationary vehicle or other object ..."

 

[alseTrick]

Your concept of "slightly worse than the national average" is still a very high rate of fatalities. The US has an epidemic of motor vehicle killings; we're terrible compared to Western Europe, comparable to South Korea, though better than the third world.

LOL

You're changing your argument mid-discussion. It's ok though.

 

[Pruitt]

This idea that legal action will result in autopilot deactivation is more of this media junkie hype. Put in all the variables and vehicle with AEB and the outcome would have likely been the same or worse. The legal system actually generally works logically. But you would never know it because you only hear the junkie hyped and only most negative and dramatic news the media puts out.

You go right on believing that, friend. Reality is quite different.

General aviation was nearly killed in the 1970s from ridiculous liability suits. It only began to recover (and still is not its former robust self) after tort reform in the 1980s.

Remember when nearly all municipal swimming pools had diving boards? They began to disappear because insurance premiums went through the roof, or coverage became totally unavailable after a series of questionable, high-award lawsuits.

Remember when nearly every town had a skating rink? Many of them closed because insurance coverage became too costly after - you guessed it - a series of high-award lawsuits.

The list goes on.

Based on historical data, legal action may well drive major changes to autopilot functionality / usability, regardless of any scientific evaluation of the system.

 

[nikielizabeth]

Would you consider starting a gofundme fundraising campaign for his family? You or close friends in the EV community seems to be in the best position to handle the money and passing it on to his family.

It is sad to have a veteran died this way who have served our country, made it safely back home, successfully contributed himself in changing the world (either at defending our freedom, or in the field of EV to help reduce climate change)

Probably best to start a new thread in this forum, to separate from the technical discussion of this thread. Thanks for considering.

I think that is a beautiful gesture. Let me contact my friend that is close to him/his family. If they decide to do it, I will be sure to let you all know.

 

[Gynob001]

According to Fox News this morning, the Tesla driver was watching a movie on his screen and it was still playing when the paramedics arrived. How did he do it? I am fairly sure that it was a violation of the law.

 

[wdolson]

I doubt AP will get disabled too. The government is definitely not going to step in and order any action based on one instance. Look how long it took for the government to force recalls on much more frequent safety problems on other cars.

As for a court settlement, Elon Musk and Tesla are not going to abandon one of the key technologies in their cars just to make a lawsuit go away. AP is Tesla's #2 selling point behind the whole electric drive. If that means going to court to settle it, Tesla might end up out some money, but the tech won't be disabled.

These days companies frequently have product liability insurance and I'm sure Tesla does. Their insurance rate might go up a bit, but it's probably pretty high to begin with because they are releasing a potentially dangerous technology on the world.

At worst, AP may nag the driver more than it does now, or have some other feature that requires the driver to pay more attention. It sounds like the driver in this case was watching a movie rather than the road (possibly on a phone or tablet) and that is contrary to Tesla's instructions.

Anyone who's teen was killed while texting and driving who tried to sue the car manufacturer, or someone who killed themselves driving drunk who's next of kin tried to sue got nowhere. There are certain things you need to do while driving and paying attention to the road is one of them. Tesla may remind people more vigorously of this when using AP, but AP will not go away.

 

[nikielizabeth]

How do you plan on getting the story form the Navy SEAL?

U

"auto-pilot while working on his laptop"?

Wow, that's bat-puckey nutz. It has to be a misunderstanding, right? Nobody who's actually driven a Tesla on autopilot is that crazy, and besides, it'd be nearly impossible under anything but perfect conditions due to the nags...

Again, it is speculation by his friends that knew him as a techie. I wasn't in the car nor did I do the investigation - so I am not 100%. My friends think I have a computer surgically attached to my hip and my iPhone to my hand...if you enjoy technology, then people assume things.

I have cussed, flipped off, told off, and all out threatened people for having their phone in front of them while driving. I saw a guy in a mini-van reading a book in rush hour traffic. I lost my damn mind when I saw that. It is sad; distracted driving kills people every day. While I feel that autopilot is freaking cool as hell, I don't believe that everyone that buys a car with it will use it safely. And honestly, there are people that will assume that autopilot is meant to be hands - and attention - free from your car. I don't agree with that logic, nor do I subscribe to the notion that it is (in any way) Tesla's fault, but there is a reason why McDonald's coffee cups have "caution: hot liquids" written all over them and autopilot is NOT for everyone.

 

[vgrinshpun]

Mobileye issued the following statement on the fatal Tesla collision:

"We have read the account of what happened in this case. Today's collision avoidance technology, or Automatic Emergency Braking (AEB) is defined as rear-end collision avoidance, and is designed specifically for that. This incident involved a laterally crossing vehicle, which current-generation AEB systems are not designed to actuate upon. Mobileye systems will include Lateral Turn Across Path (LTAP) detection capabilities beginning in 2018, and the Euro NCAP safety ratings will include this beginning in 2020."