Firmware 7.0 Beta Discussion

[Soolim]

In other words, the ideal listening position. To explain further, the speakers are at fixed locations within the car, but the person who wants to listen to music is not in the center of the car. For him to hear all of the speakers at an apparently equal volume as if he were in the center of the car, then the balance and fader have to be adjusted.

Except that the circle is exactly 180 degrees opposite of where the ideal listening position actually is. If I'm the driver, and I'm the only person in the car, then I want the sound to be balanced for my listening position -- the driver's seat. If you go to this display and place the circle in the middle of the driver's seat, you've set the balance and fader to exactly the wrong position.

For the driver's seat, the left front speakers are the closest speakers to the driver, so they have to be made the quietest out of all the speakers so they don't drown the others out. Conversely, the right rear speakers are the farthest from the driver, so they have to be made the loudest so the driver can hear them. The proper balance is to the right, and the proper fader is to the back. This places the circle in the middle of the right rear passenger seat. Completely non-intuitive.

No public embarrassment here, just the fact that Tesla frequently has a vision or objective for the interface that they fail to execute. To me, this appears to be a pattern.

I didn't get the UHD sound because I thought it wasn't worth the money when I tried it on the demo test drive. For standard sound, it work as expected. Placing the circle at the driver's seat works for me. Placing the circle at the right rear makes the sound too distant to me.

 

[mknox]

Some people hate change. So much so that even the possibility seems to have them up in arms

I think it depends on the change. With respect to UI, I very much liked the progression from Windows 3.1 up to Windows 7, but it seemed to go in a whole different (and backwards, in my mind) direction with Windows 8/8.1 and 10. The Tesla UI I'm seeing here makes me feel the same way.

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I'm mildly dyslexic too. One thing I've been learning about dyslexia is we navigate in the world by patterns and symbols more than using language. It drives me nuts when companies change the UI just for the heck of it. If there is a valid reason to change the UI, I'll hunker down and learn the new UI, but change for the sake of change pushes a lot of extra work onto my brain for no benefit.

I haven't thought about this a lot, but I seem to process information in somewhat the opposite fashion. A large shopping center I sometimes go to decided to remove all of the signs showing the parking area by number and replace them with pictographs of animals. Well, this didn't help me at all! I could remember 1-A, 2-B and so forth, but I couldn't for the life of me remember if I parked near the lion or the giraffe! And with numbers, I know that 2-C is likely adjacent to 2-B, but with no understanding of animal hierarchy, even if I remembered I was parked by the zebra, I wouldn't know which way it was from the tiger or the penguin. I guess I'm saying logical consistent numbers make more sense to me than images, which is weird because I'm terrible at math!

 

[yobigd20]

Well, I'm not a programmer but regardless..... Tesla is telling the Techs to delete the trip meters if they are over 2000 miles. Mine were reset to zero without my permission.

Since when? I had a service visit... last week, and I'm over 2k, and they did not reset my trip meters. I'd be livid if they did.

Monday

Thanks. I guess it's new. sigh.

I just had my service visit yesterday and mine wasn't reset. I'd be pretty pissed off if it was. I have 80k miles on mine now, crossed over 80,000 last night.

 

[deonb]

I think it depends on the change. With respect to UI, I very much liked the progression from Windows 3.1 up to Windows 7, but it seemed to go in a whole different (and backwards, in my mind) direction with Windows 8/8.1 and 10. The Tesla UI I'm seeing here makes me feel the same way.

I think graphic design is primarily a young field, and the kids who are getting out of school these days and get into it, have never seen Windows 1.0 or 2.0.

So they're coming up with a Windows 2.0 like interface and design paradigm and think they're inventing something new and different.

Eventually they'll be followed by an even newer generation from school that has only seen flat UI, and proclaim: "Hey cool! Look! I discovered gradients!"

Until then, we'll just have to live with dull and lifeless UI.

 

[mknox]

EDIT: Holy crap, just realized someone managed to squeeze 227k miles out of a 1980's Chrysler product. Incredible

That looks very similar to my mother's 1987 Chrysler LeBaron. (That's right, a K-car with a padded landau roof!). It's 28 years old, in near perfect condition, and she still drives it to this day.

 

[SomeJoe7777]

See, that's interesting. I wouldn't have thought for a second it was supposed to be the ideal "stereo" style listening position, because it's the intersection of fader and balance.

I would agree with you, until I see the picture of the interior of the car with the seats nicely rendered. To me, that has an entirely different meaning than just fader and balance. It wants me to select a listening position. Sweet! Click on the driver's seat. And it's exactly wrong.

Since there are obviously different and equally valid interpretations of the graphic, the real issue then is that the display is vague and unclear. That's a failed user interface.

I am glad you brought this up because I think it points out something very interesting. I'm guessing you don't find yourself in the situations I mentioned above very often. If you wanted to make the stereo loud for your kids, but quiet for you and your wife, you can't convince me that you'd want to move that slider forward instead of backwards. Our expectations differ based on our personal use of the vehicle. And I am sure that's a driving (ha!) factor behind many of the disagreements in this thread.

Probably exactly correct. I'm not married and have no kids. I'm nearly always by myself in the vehicle.

 

[HankLloydRight]

The chance that new features can fit into the old interface without any re-work or back-porting is essentially zero. But even if it would make 20% rather than 100% more work for the developers, either way we get slower delivery, more bugs, and double the testing. Plus the documentation becomes unwieldy at best. Tesla is very unlikely to go in that direction for many reasons, the most important of which is that it's not that kind of company. If it were, the Roadster would be able to use the superchargers.

You seem to know an awful lot about Tesla's internal software development process. And one again, as I said before, all of what you claim is moot if Tesla designed and developed it correctly in the first place to support multiple interfaces, or at a minimum, started updating the interface with the objective of allowing multiple interfaces down the road. You seem really stuck on it being one way or the other, and Tesla has to recode and backport code from old-to-new or new-to-old... when there's is an equal chance they did it the right way to begin with. Since neither of us work for Tesla or know what their internal software development process is like, or how they architected the UI stack, how about you stop claiming how much more work something is, or how bad an idea it is based on that?

My point (and only point) is that it all this mashing around about V7 could easily be avoided by allowing users to pick the interface they like best. I'm not making any claims as to how hard or easy that might be since I don't know. So instead of trying to appease everyone with only one frankenstiened interface (which is guaranteed to please nobody), they can have a Classic interface for those who want it (me and many other people), and a flat, bland, and useless interface for people who want that. It's called "Best of Both Worlds".

 

[SomeJoe7777]

Not sure what you think is tricky. The car has a bunch of speakers that make sounds. The circle is where you are adjusting the system to place a more or less equivalent single sound maker. Put the circle in the front left corner and that's where the sound is coming from. Same for other places. Seems straightforward to me.

Single sound maker: Who cares where the sound is made? What matters is where the sound is heard.

Sound is coming from: That is only true if you were seated at the center of the car. But no one is.

 

[apacheguy]

I think it depends on the change. With respect to UI, I very much liked the progression from Windows 3.1 up to Windows 7, but it seemed to go in a whole different (and backwards, in my mind) direction with Windows 8/8.1 and 10. The Tesla UI I'm seeing here makes me feel the same way.

^This. I love change! I can assure you, Zythryn, it is not the prospect of change that has all of up on arms. Otherwise, we would have an outcry for every software release. Up until now, I have welcomed all other changes with open arms. 7.0 beta seems like a regression, particularly for those of us with classics.

 

[ohmman]

It would be interesting if the released version of 7.0 winds up being almost universally loved, but cars like mine without AP ("classics" in this thread's parlance) become ineligible and the software branches. 7.0+ would get constant updates, 6.2+ would get maintenance releases only.

I wonder how the conversation would change. I sense some "I bought this car because it got upgrades, now I can't have the latest software!" mixed in.

This is bound to happen at some point, and people should get ready for it, but I doubt we're there yet. Just a thought exercise.

 

[hissymissy]

Are there any new leaks/information about v7 since these leaked screenshots?

 

[Panu]

7.0+ would get constant updates, 6.2+ would get maintenance releases only.

I don't think you will get any updates if you refuse the upgrade to 7.

 

[ohmman]

I don't think you will get any updates if you refuse the upgrade to 7.

I wasn't suggesting refusal. I was saying Tesla would branch, and in that case they'd likely make maintenance releases for security and other purposes.

 

[Cyclone]

I haven't thought about this a lot, but I seem to process information in somewhat the opposite fashion. A large shopping center I sometimes go to decided to remove all of the signs showing the parking area by number and replace them with pictographs of animals. Well, this didn't help me at all! I could remember 1-A, 2-B and so forth, but I couldn't for the life of me remember if I parked near the lion or the giraffe! And with numbers, I know that 2-C is likely adjacent to 2-B, but with no understanding of animal hierarchy, even if I remembered I was parked by the zebra, I wouldn't know which way it was from the tiger or the penguin. I guess I'm saying logical consistent numbers make more sense to me than images, which is weird because I'm terrible at math!

I've experienced the exact same problem before and cursed under my breath why they couldn't just use a serialized convention so I could find my car better!

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Yet another thing that complainers here seem to be ignoring is that none of this is about you or people like you. This is all about getting to Model 3. You know, mass market. New Tesla drivers (who will at that point be the vast majority, render y'all about as important to the market as Roadster owners) won't care about EV nonsense, state of charge, instantaneous efficiency and such. They will be driving the best and safest vehicle on the road and care only about whether it has enough fuel to get to the desired destination, and if not then how far they can go and where they can refuel. If Tesla can get that right (and they've done a mediocre job on that so far) then the rest will make no difference. The fact that the car is an EV just won't be important.

Let me stop you. I bought a Model S, not a rolling test lab for Model 3 development. Changing the Model S displays and UI because Model 3 buyers want simple and less information defies all logic. If that's Tesla's goal, then give the Model 3 its own "dumbed down" UI and displays. However, using my Model S to experiment with a UI that potential Model 3 buyers might like is not appropriate or appreciated, if that's what you're implying is happening here.

"All about getting to Model 3" is Tesla's business problem, it is not carte blanche to use our cars as test labs for what Model 3 buyers might like. I don't think Tesla would be this monumentally stupid.

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Well, I'm not a programmer but regardless..... Tesla is telling the Techs to delete the trip meters if they are over 2000 miles. Mine were reset to zero without my permission.

Sounds like your service center has gone rogue! lol

My SvC has never reset my trip meters, and I have over 30,000 miles.

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Nevertheless, that's what successful high tech gadget companies do. If that mode doesn't suit you, it's probably not a good idea to own high tech gadgets.

No they don't. Apple doesn't change the UI of it's iPhone because it's developing the Apple Watch and wants to "get to the Apple Watch", using your parlance. What an incredibly stupid way to operate. Successful high tech companies don't operate in the manner you suggest, not at all. You are connecting the wrong dots. If Tesla is actually doing what you suggest - and they would be complete idiots if they were.

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In my opinion, what I've seen of the purported leaks of 7.0 screens makes me have great discomfort and concern.

I as well. I worked in graphic/UI design for 10 years, and what I saw in the leaked photos and video is not a step forward. The flattening of the UI is not as much of a problem for me as the dysfunctional use of space on the speedo screen.

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The importance of the UI on a vehicle *should* be far far less than that on a computing device. Some would argue, and have here on this thread, that a simpler, less distracting UI is actually desirable. That may not be the case for other devices.

But it's not less distracting if you have to drill through multiple screens to get at the option you need, or are not provided with the information you want. And watching a first-person video game on your speedo is hardly less distracting - it's MORE distracting.

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The smart people will get around this by buying Nexus handsets or others that can be loaded with custom ROMs, but not everyone wants to put up with this.

You mean, like, the majority? lol

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The focus is on autopilot and driver assistance. Sure, there are about 80,000 cars without autopilot out there, but within a year the number of cars with AP will be roughly equal to those without... and beyond that, the "classic" cars will be even more of a minority. For what it's worth, I plan to wait until I get some experience before I pass judgment. I'll probably adapt very quickly to 7.0; there will be items that I certainly like, and items that I don't necessarily like. And I'll get to compare the "classic" experience with the autopilot experience when our Model X arrives.

As an owner of a vintage/classic P85, I have no care for how many Autopilot cars Tesla is going to sell. I don't want my speedo changed to match the hardware capabilities of future cars if that change means I have a lot of empty space without the information I want. This is my car, not someone else's, and changing my speedo screen because it's better suited for autopilot vehicles makes no sense. Why should my screens change based on new products and new functionality that I don't have, and when my current setup is just about perfect? Literally everything you need to know is located in the center of your speedo. You don't have to look at a bunch of different things scattered about. Everything is located in the center and presented clearly.

I don't mind Tesla flattening the UI to be on trend, but I do mind when they reduce the functionality of something I already have because that's what they are selling now.

 

[R²B]

Every car, from every manufacturer, is an experiment for the future versions of the product line.

 

[mgboyes]

Anyone have Ultra High Fidelity sound? Pull up the fader and balance control. You get a picture of the interior of the car, with the fader slider on the side with a horizontal line, and the balance control on the top with a vertical line. Where the lines intersect is a circle. Tell me the purpose of that circle and the crossed lines. What is it supposed to represent? What does it actually represent? Looking forward to your responses.

Doesn't everyone get that view? I assumed fade and balance was a feature included in the standard car, not part of UHF.

Anyway I have only ever interpreted it to mean that it points to the place where the sounds is "loudest". And I only ever use it either to send the sound to the back (if it's bluetoothed up to the kids' iPad and I don't want to listen to yet another Disney film) or to the driver's corner when I'm listening to a podcast while everyone else is asleep.

Are you saying that you genuinely thought it was an "optimise the sound stage for the benefit of the person sitting in this spot" control? Do other devices (e.g. high end audio kit I guess) have functions and displays like that? Does any other car have controls like this?

 

[mknox]

Anyway I have only ever interpreted it to mean that it points to the place where the sounds is "loudest".

Exactly. Is that not what it is for???

 

[OddB]

Since there are some graphic designers here. .. How about taking one of the pictures and photoshop it into something we could like ?

 

[Gizmotoy]

Since there are some graphic designers here. .. How about taking one of the pictures and photoshop it into something we could like ?

Honestly, I'd be relatively happy if they just embedded the energy usage back into the speedometer dial. If they want the toy car to ease the autopilot transition, fine, but I want to know energy usage without consuming a custom slot. While I'd prefer them, I don't even really care about units so much: even a unitless green/orange bar would suffice so long as they keep the advanced energy widget shown here. I don't need a clock on the dash (especially not an analog one), but that doesn't hurt me as I can put something else in that slot if I want.

My Photoshop (Paint) skills on display!

Alternatively, maybe change the color or the speedometer line based on energy usage. Instead of the static blue we get now, make the bar transition from bright green to bright orange as energy consumption changes.