Firmware 7.0 Beta Discussion

[Lex]

I'm thinking/hoping it is only a recommendation and not a requirement. They have to recommend it for legal reasons, but can the current steering wheel even detect your hand? I doubt it.

I too am hoping there aren't even sensors in the wheel, but then maybe they'll make us tap an alert box on the screen now and then if the litigious lot get their hands on it.

Heck, I am doing a lot of hands-free autopiloting already... the car does a pretty impressive job holding a lane (in a straightaway ; ) already. So if I now have to hold the wheel at all times that would be a step back.

And no, I don't pay any less attention. In fact I'm now certain that sharing driving duties with robot car allows the driver to be even more aware of the surroundings (eg. instead of the just the stop-and-go bumper in front).

 

[Coiled]

If you go to page 3 of this thread, there seems to be an image of autopilot in action.

I looked and didn't see positive confirmation of lane-keeping, but maybe I missed it. Can you point out specifically what you're seeing?

 

[dirkhh]

... and hey, where is the improved navigation with waypoints, multiple routing options, etc.?

There's no keeping us happy, is there? lol

It's the old "let's work on the shiny thing instead of the boring basics". The quality of navigation on the Model S is sub standard for its price class. I have long given up and drive with a phone and Waze running. Which gets me endless abuse from friends who ask me what's wrong with the nice 17" screen in my car if all I use is my phone...

 

[Coiled]

I don't why everyone is saying that. First beta in mid august had the new autopilot features, including auto-steer and lane changing.

Where is the confirmation of that? I admit I haven't followed this super-closely and could have missed it.

 

[Max*]

I too am hoping there aren't even sensors in the wheel

If there were no "sensors" in the wheel, when you turned the wheel you'd go nowhere. There might not be a pressure sensor to tell that your hand is gripping the wheel (that'd by silly anyways, as some people use no force to hold it, and you never know where I'm going to hold it).

But I can guarantee you that the car can detect if you're driving or not. You move the steering wheel left, it gets registered as a motion, your tires move left. If you don't have your hands on the wheel, the car will autosteer, and will see no input/adjustment at all for a prolonged period of time "ding ding ding" please put your hands on the wheel (assuming they go this route). Vs. you have your hands on the wheel, and the car sees that the motion to the tires is close, but not an exact match to the autopilot inputs, then it knows you're holding the wheel (or moving it with your legs).

Not to mention how you can change the steering from comfort to sport to standard.

 

[tezzla]

I don't think what you are referring to rises to a lie. I think we all understood that when Elon says something will be released to beta on a certain date, that date is obviously a moving target. You never know when issues pop up. I don't think it's appropriate to parse Tesla's statements in this manner, suggesting that they lied. I do not agree at all.

Normally I wouldn't say "lied" to us; but I am so jaded by Tesla's lack of response on so many levels that they are no longer getting the benefit of doubt (by me). They have definitely lost my trust, the only reason I stay around is for the kids (my car) (lame attempt to equate their lying to a cheated on spouse).

 

[AmpedRealtor]

If there were no "sensors" in the wheel, when you turned the wheel you'd go nowhere. There might not be a pressure sensor to tell that your hand is gripping the wheel (that'd by silly anyways, as some people use no force to hold it, and you never know where I'm going to hold it).

But I can guarantee you that the car can detect if you're driving or not. You move the steering wheel left, it gets registered as a motion, your tires move left. If you don't have your hands on the wheel, the car will autosteer, and will see no input/adjustment at all for a prolonged period of time "ding ding ding" please put your hands on the wheel (assuming they go this route). Vs. you have your hands on the wheel, and the car sees that the motion to the tires is close, but not an exact match to the autopilot inputs, then it knows you're holding the wheel (or moving it with your legs).

Not to mention how you can change the steering from comfort to sport to standard.

+1... detection will be via torque to the wheel.

- - - Updated - - -

Normally I wouldn't say "lied" to us; but I am so jaded by Tesla's lack of response on so many levels that they are no longer getting the benefit of doubt (by me). They have definitely lost my trust, the only reason I stay around is for the kids (my car) (lame attempt to equate their lying to a cheated on spouse).

I didn't realize until just now that you have a P85D, so I'm sure Autopilot was big on your list of reasons for buying it. I can understand your frustration.

 

[Lex]

The quality of navigation on the Model S is sub standard for its price class.

Or for a 9 year old Dodge. The 2007 MyGig allowed for trip planning, ie. "go there first ?"

Ok sure we have real-time Google traffic but that just means the nav tries to insist I take the toll highway... and I can't turn that off.

I can't swipe away suggested Superchargers in the beta "trip planning" software.

And yet planning trips is more important in MS than in the old Dodge... AND it's a premium car vs. the Dodge... AND it's a basically a big software platform anyway.

So ya like totally, what gives, it is the big shiny things as dirkhh said ? I am disappointed there is no advanced settings page (or even a basic Nav settings window) but I think I'm starting to get it now...

 

[eye.surgeon]

If this is not a real public release, at least there is some hope that god awful clock is replaced with something better than the "programmer art" place holder that is still shown in the release notes.

Or maybe there will be a couple of styles to choose from, other than the amateurish, stick figure clock drawn by a kindergartner, look shown.

I'd prefer something just a little more sophisticated for a $100k car...

+1. That clock would get a D- at any graphic design school in the country.

 

[FredLambert]

Where is the confirmation of that? I admit I haven't followed this super-closely and could have missed it.

I've wrote an article on Electrek.co (which was later posted here too) about the first early released including how steering wheel alerts work and now with information being confirmed with the leaked release notes.

 

[Max*]

Ok sure we have real-time Google traffic but that just means the nav tries to insist I take the toll highway... and I can't turn that off.

HAH! Here it's the opposite (we have paid lanes and regular lanes on the same road), whenever I take the paid lanes, it tells me to get off at the next exit and come back onto the free lanes. And I keep yelling at it that I don't want to stand in traffic!

 

[Chasedrgc1223]

Well it's not specifically lane keep or autosteer, but the frontal vehicle detection in one of the pictures seems to indicate autopilot, according to the new release notes.

 

[Max*]

Well it's not specifically lane keep or autosteer, but the frontal vehicle detection in one of the pictures seems to indicate autopilot, according to the new release notes.

Autopilot = TACC + Lanekeep/Autosteer (whatever you want to call it)

 

[Coiled]

If there were no "sensors" in the wheel, when you turned the wheel you'd go nowhere.

Obviously the car can detect whether you're steering. That's not the point, because if you steer manually then auto-steering will probably turn off, just like touching the brake turns off cruise control.

The question is whether the car can detect whether your hand is resting lightly on the wheel without applying any torque. I hope the answer is no because I want hands-free steering, not a Mercedes nanny-mobile.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

The question is whether the car can detect whether your hand is resting lightly on the wheel without applying any torque. I hope the answer is no because I want hands-free steering, not a Mercedes nanny-mobile.

The potential down side to this is that your hands may be busy with something else at the precise moment Autopilot releases control in the middle of a sharp curve due to unclear lane markers. And over a cliff you go...

 

[Max*]

Obviously the car can detect whether you're steering. That's not the point, because if you steer manually then auto-steering will probably turn off, just like touching the brake turns off cruise control.

The question is whether the car can detect whether your hand is resting lightly on the wheel without applying any torque. I hope the answer is no because I want hands-free steering, not a Mercedes nanny-mobile.

If your hand is resting on the wheel*, you're applying torque. There's no way around it.
*And the car is driving.

You make hundreds of microcorrections to the steering wheel every minute as you're driving. Autosteer will make corrections too, if it's corrections aren't implemented perfectly, it'll sense the torque from your hand. Unless you're a machine you can not have your hand on the wheel and not apply any torque.

I can guarantee they have the ability to detect if your hand is on the wheel. The question is what are they going to do about it. We'll find out soon.

 

[Ingineer]

I'm thinking/hoping it is only a recommendation and not a requirement. They have to recommend it for legal reasons, but can the current steering wheel even detect your hand? I doubt it.

The wheel can't detect anything, but the power steering system most definitely can detect any mass on the wheel as it has a torque sensor in the steering shaft. All it has to do is move the shaft and the torque sensor (with a little math) will tell them how heavy your hand is even if it's not moving. This is also how some other systems work, which is why taping something like a drink can to the wheel was able to "fake it out".

 

[twinpeaks]

I watched the leaked video of the first version of v7 closely again and in the 'settings'-tab there is no sub-tab for 'driving assistance' at all, making it very, very likely that autosteer/autopilot was just released in the latest update.

 

[Max*]

The potential down side to this is that your hands may be busy with something else at the precise moment Autopilot releases control in the middle of a sharp curve due to unclear lane markers. And over a cliff you go...

I was going to make a counter argument and say "nah, Tesla is smarter than that" But after having my TACC disengage suddenly (there was a quick beep and without warning TACC goes off due to an obstructed radar or some BS, we were in a tunnel, I'm guessing multipath might have been the real reason) while my wife was driving, and have regen kick in full blast (thankfully no one behind us)

So yes, I can totally see auto-steer disengaging without warning.

 

[wk057]

I watched the leaked video of the first version of v7 closely again and in the 'settings'-tab there is no sub-tab for 'driving assistance' at all, making it very, very likely that autosteer/autopilot was just released in the latest update.

That was a non-autopilot car.