Firmware 8.1 - Autopilot HW2

[chillaban]

I've been using AP as much as possible on the freeway since the "8.1" update, and it's been working great. One thing I was wondering was since AEB isn't enabled yet does that mean it won't slam on the brakes if the car in front of me slams on his brakes when I have the TACC and/or AP engaged?

It's more complicated than that:

AEB is the car slamming on the brakes full-force when it realizes there's no way you can avoid an accident if it doesn't take action. This usually happens beyond human reaction time (e.g. if AEB doesn't kick in, you are 100% guaranteed to get in a wreck). As a result, frankly anyone attempting to "test" AEB should strongly consider the ever-popular blow-up doll silver car.

TACC/AP is capable of hitting the brakes when it thinks it's needed. My Audi's manual clearly documented that this is up to 30% of the maximum braking force.With Tesla, it's substantially higher than that (I would guess 50-75%), and in 8.0 they dramatically increased the ramp by 5x (the ramp is how suddenly the car can slam on the brakes). When TACC computes that its maximum braking force isn't enough, it will trigger a special FCW called a BCW (brake capacity warning).

TLDR: TACC can still slam on the brakes for a suddenly slowing down or encountered object. But not nearly as hard as AEB can slam on the brakes. I've experienced AEB a few times in other luxury cars: It knocks the wind out of your lungs. Anything less than that is probably just TACC sudden braking, not AEB. But bottom line, if you hear the FCW alert while TACC is engaged, you should take over braking if it's not a ghost car. It means that AP is pretty sure you're gonna get in a wreck if you don't touch anything.

 

[TexLaw]

I've been using AP as much as possible on the freeway since the "8.1" update, and it's been working great. One thing I was wondering was since AEB isn't enabled yet does that mean it won't slam on the brakes if the car in front of me slams on his brakes when I have the TACC and/or AP engaged?

To echo a bit what @chillaban said very well, TACC should brake fairly severely if the car in front of you slams on its brakes. However, it may not be enough on its own. In other words (just like always), you need to be alert and at the ready to jam on your brake pedal if you are following closely enough to be concerned.

Every AP2 feature still is, pretty much, in beta. It is fun, and it is interesting, and it's even helpful in many situations. However, it still is a work in progress and NOT completely reliable.

 

[Deans]

It will brake automatically if you have TACC and/or AP engaged, unless you are pressing the accelerator at the time (which always overrides TACC and any automatic braking, including AEB when it becomes available).

I did notice that in slow moving traffic, TACC does not always see buses directly in front of you. In that case, it might not brake properly if the bus slows down in front of you. I've seen that in city traffic, but not yet on the highway.

 

[Tangible]

Just to point out how sad it is that our advanced Teslas can't yet do Automatic Emergency Braking, here's a year-old list* of 2016 cars that have fully implemented it:

Chevy Malibu
Chrysler 300
Honda Civic
Scion IA
Mazda 6
Nissan Sentra
Subaru Impreza
Volkswagen Golf
Hyundai Sonata

You could buy two or sometimes three of these cars for what we paid for ours. It is truly appalling that Tesla is working on crippled versions of its promised Summon and Parking features instead of paying attention to keeping its customers safe.

*Source: 10 Cars with Automatic Emergency Braking Systems

 

[NerdUno]

Even the Crappy Purple Scion? Elon should be ashamed.

 

[Reciprocity]

You could buy two or sometimes three of these cars for what we paid for ours. It is truly appalling that Tesla is working on crippled versions of its promised Summon and Parking features instead of paying attention to keeping its customers safe.

Those features are much simpler then AEB. I believe they would have enabled it already but they are probably still have to many false positives. You see this when your car decelerates quickly in TACC because of upcoming over passes or when going around corners and the system sees cars in adjacent lanes and thinks they are in front of you. Its almost as if the system sees to much in terms of range and field of view when compared to AP1 hardware. If they turned on AEB in this scenario it could actually cause accidents.

I agree that AEB is the only feature I am upset that it is not active, but I get why. Overall safety is more important then the potential safety improvement from AEB as it is today. I would not expect it to be very much longer and I can assure you that safety is Tesla's top priority, always.

 

[Tangible]

Even the Crappy Purple Scion? Elon should be ashamed.

Yes, though it's now sold as a Toyota Corolla iM. The MSRP is $18,750. By comparison, a Tesla S 90D with every option ticked is $23,000. Without the car, that is.

 

[Edgewood Dome]

I believe it not ready yet with too many false positives. I drive I-405 from Renton, WA to Bothell, WA every day and this last week it has had 1 to 2 false positives each way every day. Some times it's the overhead signs, sometimes nothing there at all. Each time I get the warning buzzer and it slams on the brakes hard for just a fraction of a second. It is so bad I can't use TACC when cars are close behind. Really scared me each time.

 

[NerdUno]

Trip today from Charleston to St Augustine FL with the entire state of New York on I-95S. Auto steer gets a B+ except on the curves around Jacksonville. Tesla SCs in Savannah and St Augustine were nearly empty.

 

[Tangible]

Auto steer gets a B+

Can you be more specific about what that means?

 

[Reciprocity]

auto steer and auto lane change are nearly flawless for me on freeways. No issues with curvy roads. Not having any weird rapid deceleration from overpasses or anything else for that matter. Auto steer on local roads is still touch and go. Some areas it is flawless.

Neither see a car merging into your lane or two lanes that merge into one.. really the same thing. The car just does not see the merging car until it is directly in front of you and that can sometimes put that car too close. I have no issue as this system requires you to pay attention still, it just simplifies the driving experience.

 

[AndrewTX]

I just did a round trip between Houston and Dallas on I-45 and thought AP did quite well. I probably used it for 200 miles total, in the open road up to 80 mph and in bumper to bumper stop and go traffic.

 

[BruceR61]

I spent three hours on the freeway round trip with AP2. There were a couple of times I thought I would override it where I gave it a chance and it did fine. Only once did I feel I had to take over. That was with 200+ miles of use. If this is "inferior" I look forward to "mediocre." I'm pleased.

 

[NerdUno]

Can you be more specific about what that means?

Several stretches of highway where you felt like you were fighting to keep the car in the lane even though it merely hovered beside the left lane markings. No discernible reason why. Also turned itself off a couple of times with no audible feedback. Finally one perturbed driver passed us and immediately darted in front of the car. Without taking over, we would have hit him. Tesla was clueless. Bottom line: Don't ever be foolish enough to trust autosteer even for a split second if there are other vehicles or obstacles anywhere near your car.

 

[Price-S]

My point, all kidding aside, was that while there may be some learning going on at the fleet level, later incorporated into software releases, there's no reason to believe that individual cars "know" about roads they've driven on before, or respond to our corrections by changing future behavior.

Certainly the repeated experience trains the driver to know when the car is going to fail, and therefore be on alert to take over.

It would be interesting to take another car with Lane Keeping Assistance over the same route if you can find a suitably equipped friend to help. My 2015 Acura MDX and 2014 Audi A6 are both better at this stuff than my HW2 Tesla.

I disagree. I have some experience over a very controlled environment, my home driving at Leisure Village. With the 17.9.3 update, on 25 mph main streets, lines on both sides were too far apart for center AS. So, I let it follow either the double yellow center line or the bike lane line (when there was no traffic or security). At first, the car would 'lose concentration' and swerve through (left or right) at line breaks (side street entrances). It seemed to improve with more driving. I believe I helped it by being firm on the steering wheel, until I cancelled AS, if I had to. With 8.1-17.11.3, it is doing much better. Line breaks are no longer a problem, even on the curves. I guess that could be 'fleet line break' improvement from the latest update, but, it was improving before that, almost to the level it is now.

 

[Viking1]

Just had a big break event while passing under an overpass. This did not happen before. I'm done with 17.11.3.

 

[AudubonB]

This post concerns SUMMON. As thread originator, HankLR please alert me if you know of a more appropriate venue and I'll have it shifted.

• I cannot properly program it (17.latest.latest). I have tried coaxing the XP100D into and out of the garage, moving in either a forward or reverse direction.
• In attempting to enter the garage, the vehicle stops every time some 8 feet in front of the rear wall, leaving most of the nose outside the door.
• In attempting to exit the garage, the vehicle stops approximately half-way out the door.

'Suboptimal' is the kindest word I'm coming up with....

 

[sdorn]

This post concerns SUMMON. As thread originator, HankLR please alert me if you know of a more appropriate venue and I'll have it shifted.

• I cannot properly program it (17.latest.latest). I have tried coaxing the XP100D into and out of the garage, moving in either a forward or reverse direction.
• In attempting to enter the garage, the vehicle stops every time some 8 feet in front of the rear wall, leaving most of the nose outside the door.
• In attempting to exit the garage, the vehicle stops approximately half-way out the door.

'Suboptimal' is the kindest word I'm coming up with....

Did you try adjusting the side clearance? I had to set mine to tight (or whatever the option is, I don't have it in front of me) to get my car to go through my garage doors as there is only a few inches of clearance on each side.

 

[AudubonB]

My door isn't narrow but no, I didn't. I'll go check now but in that the vehicle makes it most of the way in it shouldn't be that. There might be some poor coordination of sensors that is fouling things up - I'll report back.

 

[NOLA_Mike]

My door isn't narrow but no, I didn't. I'll go check now but in that the vehicle makes it most of the way in it shouldn't be that. There might be some poor coordination of sensors that is fouling things up - I'll report back.

Mine won't make it over the "lip" at the entrance unless it is coming in at a slight angle (and even then, it won't make it every time). If the tires are squared up with the little elevation change that is between my driveway and the garage floor then it will stall out and abort.

Doesn't really sound like that is your issue but wanted to throw it out there as another item to check.