Firmware 9 in August will start rolling out full self-driving features!!!

[boonedocks]

Maybe drive to nav “technically” meets some self measured milestone for EAP that allows Tesla to move some more $$ to earned income on their books. If so and “officially cough cough released in some fashion” before September 30 maybe they can boost earned income for the 3rd quarter?!?

 

[diplomat33]

Maybe drive to nav “technically” meets some self measured milestone for EAP that allows Tesla to move some more $$ to earned income on their books. If so and “officially cough cough released in some fashion” before September 30 maybe they can boost earned income for the 3rd quarter?!?

I can see that. If Tesla argues that "drive to nav" is a first step towards FSD, they might be able to count the FSD money.

 

[pkodali]

It sounds like they are using the final human input as validation to help train the neural network (i.e. if it suggests a lane change and you don't take it, becomes negative reinforcement

 

[Bladerskb]

It sounds like they are using the final human input as validation to help train the neural network (i.e. if it suggests a lane change and you don't take it, becomes negative reinforcement

Nope. This is very much not likely.

 

[Bladerskb]

I am hoping "drive to nav" wil eventually develop into more and this is just a first step. Honestly, "drive to nav" only suggesting lane changes to the driver sounds pretty tame and useless. I wonder if Tesla is nerfing "drive to nav" because it is for EAP, keeping the future self-driving stuff for FSD purchasers?

It is lame and useless. Remember this is something that was said to be complete dec 2016... two years ago!

It shows you just how early on in development they really are. It's crazy how the usual suspects that were proclaiming and vowing that Tesla will release level 4 in 2018 no longer post here. @stopcrazypp

 

[diplomat33]

It is lame and useless. Remember this is something that was said to be complete dec 2016... two years ago!

It shows you just how early on in development they really are. It's crazy how the usual suspects that were proclaiming and vowing that Tesla will release level 4 in 2018 no longer post here. @stopcrazypp

Well, the ever optimist in me is hoping that there is more to come in 9.1 or later. This is just info on the alpha version after all. Things can change.

 

[BigD0g]

Well, the ever optimist in me is hoping that there is more to come in 9.1 or later. This is just info on the alpha version after all. Things can change.

I think we've been saying this for two years now. And yes, they have certainly changed, but not at the exponential rate Musk said would happen two years ago, and in some regards it was a step back. Seems like more of the same, over hype, under deliver.... Soon though! maybe version 10!! Thank god we got in that mame / Atari mode though!

 

[pkodali]

I think we've been saying this for two years now. And yes, they have certainly changed, but not at the exponential rate Musk said would happen two years ago, and in some regards it was a step back. Seems like more of the same, over hype, under deliver.... Soon though! maybe version 10!! Thank god we got in that mame / Atari mode though!

My hope is that since they had to rewrite everything since Karpathy came, the exponential rate thing should be reset to then instead

 

[OPRCE]

If 9.0 is the "alpha version" of FSD, then on what software was that demo video running in the Tesla showroom for the last year or so based?

 

[boonedocks]

Well, the ever optimist in me is hoping that there is more to come in 9.1 or later. This is just info on the alpha version after all. Things can change.

I am optimistic as well. Forever the glass is half full. The position that Elon has put Tesla in and the missed targets he has touted has all but permanently labeled the glass as “a half glass”. Not half full or empty just…half a glass Elon has firmly taught us “Dont expect what is sold and “promised” and absolutely never more but do expect less than promised”. Something always seems to come out and delay after delay after delay we applaud and accept what is given even though it is less than the original expectation that was made.

 

[diplomat33]

If 9.0 is the "alpha version" of FSD, then on what software was that demo video running in the Tesla showroom for the last year or so based?

The FSD demo was probably running on completely different software, probably modified Mobileye software ported over to the AP2 hardware, that Tesla is not using anymore. Remember that after the split with Mobileye, Tesla had to redo all of the autopilot software from scratch. And then the redo was not working so Karpathy introduced the neural net with that he calls "software 2.0" and redid a lot of the autopilot code again from scratch. So the software in V9 is completely new from whatever Tesla was using to do the FSD demo. That is a big reason why FSD is taking so long IMO.

 

[boonedocks]

If 9.0 is the "alpha version" of FSD, then on what software was that demo video running in the Tesla showroom for the last year or so based?

It is pretty apparent that the video was a true "smoke & mirrors" production. At the last earnings call 8-1-18 @5:30pm est. Elon responded to the question about Tesla completing the long awaited Coast-to-Coast demo mentioned well over a year ago.

Elon responded: Yeah, we can do a coast to coast drive, especially if we – like if we pick a specific route and then write code to really make that route work, we could do a coast to coast route drive, but that would be kind of gaming the system. And I think it's really important for the autopilot team to be focused on fundamental safety of the existing features.

In MY opinion it safe to say that the video produced for EAP/FSD in late 2016 early 2017 was just that. A gaming of the system for self promotion. One of the few times that you will ever here something close to an admittance of that.

 

[GlmnAlyAirCar]

"drive to nav" will suggest lane changes to the driver based on nav directions but driver will still activate auto lane change with turn signal.

What's interesting is that, if the article is true, this functionality could be implemented with AP1 as well as AP2, since lane change suggestion is purely a function of nav. Of course AP1 will never get fully autonomous lane changes, but it could still benefit from this update.

The question of whether Tesla will actually implement this feature for AP1 is entirely separate. I suspect they probably will not, as they did not implement automatic exit deceleration on AP1, even though there was no technical reason why they couldn't.

 

[S100D]

I can see that. If Tesla argues that "drive to nav" is a first step towards FSD, they might be able to count the FSD money.

If it is pushed to cars that do not have FSD, I don't think that they can consider it an FSD feature to move FSD money into the coffers.

 

[J1mbo]

If it is pushed to cars that do not have FSD, I don't think that they can consider it an FSD feature to move FSD money into the coffers.

IMO, a feature which requires manual intervention cannot be classified as "self driving".

For example:

auto-overtake (requiring the driver to initiate) = EAP
auto-overtake (no driver input) = self driving

 

[Kant.Ing]

"Autopilot will suggest lane changes based on getting to that destination."

It's kinda sketchy and scary how drive to nav will work without the car knowing or verifying which lane it is currently on. Or it's using the last few FSD cameras to do so?

Or wait, isn't this what Google Map already does? I remember it said something like "use the 2nd lane to the right to make the left turn" regardless the lane I was at.

 

[rnortman]

I am hoping "drive to nav" wil eventually develop into more and this is just a first step. Honestly, "drive to nav" only suggesting lane changes to the driver sounds pretty tame and useless. I wonder if Tesla is nerfing "drive to nav" because it is for EAP, keeping the future self-driving stuff for FSD purchasers?

Not sure if you are saying here that suggesting lane changes is an EAP feature but initiating lane changes is FSD, but just in case you were, I'll say it again: EAP includes lane changes with no action required by the driver, not only for on-ramp to off-ramp to be in the correct exit lane, but also to adapt to traffic conditions (i.e., overtake slow cars).

It is pretty apparent that the video was a true "smoke & mirrors" production. At the last earnings call 8-1-18 @5:30pm est. Elon responded to the question about Tesla completing the long awaited Coast-to-Coast demo mentioned well over a year ago.
[...]
In MY opinion it safe to say that the video produced for EAP/FSD in late 2016 early 2017 was just that. A gaming of the system for self promotion. One of the few times that you will ever here something close to an admittance of that.

I would guess that in addition to custom software for that route, they had extra computing power on board, not the standard AP2 compute and GPU.

IMO, a feature which requires manual intervention cannot be classified as "self driving".

For example:

auto-overtake (requiring the driver to initiate) = EAP
auto-overtake (no driver input) = self driving

Wrong, auto-overtake is an EAP feature, unless you contort yourself into a strange interpretation of the following:

Enhanced Autopilot
Enhanced Autopilot adds these new capabilities to the Tesla Autopilot driving experience. Your Tesla will match speed to traffic conditions, keep within a lane, automatically change lanes without requiring driver input, transition from one freeway to another, exit the freeway when your destination is near, self-park when near a parking spot and be summoned to and from your garage.

On-ramp to Off-ramp
Once on the freeway, your Tesla will determine which lane you need to be in and when. In addition to ensuring you reach your intended exit, Autopilot will watch for opportunities to move to a faster lane when you're caught behind slower traffic. When you reach your exit, your Tesla will depart the freeway, slow down and transition control back to you.​

(from tesla.com/autopilot)

 

[MarcusMaximus]

Nope. This is very much not likely.

What? That is exactly the kind of thing this would be used for. You look for sections where the human didn’t take the recommendation and that becomes excellent training data, where you know the system was doing the wrong thing.

 

[MarcusMaximus]

Interesting development, and it’ll be interesting to see if it reaches our cars that way. As described, it’s essentilly performing the whole task but falling back on the driver to confirm each needed lane change(note that giving a suggestion of a lane change is no easier a task than just performing the change, from a processing perspective). Fairly useless from a driver perspective, but a great way to gather training data and/or validate their network.

 

[diplomat33]

Not sure if you are saying here that suggesting lane changes is an EAP feature but initiating lane changes is FSD, but just in case you were, I'll say it again: EAP includes lane changes with no action required by the driver, not only for on-ramp to off-ramp to be in the correct exit lane, but also to adapt to traffic conditions (i.e., overtake slow cars).

Wrong, auto-overtake is an EAP feature, unless you contort yourself into a strange interpretation of the following:

Enhanced Autopilot
Enhanced Autopilot adds these new capabilities to the Tesla Autopilot driving experience. Your Tesla will match speed to traffic conditions, keep within a lane, automatically change lanes without requiring driver input, transition from one freeway to another, exit the freeway when your destination is near, self-park when near a parking spot and be summoned to and from your garage.

On-ramp to Off-ramp
Once on the freeway, your Tesla will determine which lane you need to be in and when. In addition to ensuring you reach your intended exit, Autopilot will watch for opportunities to move to a faster lane when you're caught behind slower traffic. When you reach your exit, your Tesla will depart the freeway, slow down and transition control back to you.​

(from tesla.com/autopilot)

I am fully aware that auto lane change without driver input is described as a EAP feature. So from that, we can assume that this "lane change suggestion" feature will evolve into the "auto lane change without driver input" and "on-off ramp exit" and remain part of EAP. I personally have always felt like those features don't really sound like EAP to me. They sound more like FSD features since the car is self-driving. But based on the description, I guess Tesla intends to make them part of EAP nonetheless.