For AWD owners wanting a P3D-

[StealthP3D]

But 100% of actual evidence says that's not how that works.

You keep making sweeping claims about the "actual evidence" while never actually providing any evidence that is compelling to your beliefs.

Everyone with a 980 DU would be eligible, since they literally have the same HW as the P version

Having the same part number does not ensure the parts are identical. In fact, we know that manufactured parts have variation (and in the case of silicon carbide power transistors, that variation is more than a little significant). The variation is significant enough that Tesla even told us they bin the drive units specifically for the higher current levels of the Performance version. The fact that they gave them a part number before they were tested and binned doesn't change this fact. That was on the first, early-production units. Now they give them different part numbers (which is all the proof you need to know that Performance and AWD drive units are different). This should be the end of the story but some very stubborn people want to continue to insist the early production drive units must be the same based solely on the part number thingy.

Tesla is a very data-driven company and they know more about the parts in your car than you might imagine. All they tell you is the model, the color, and which options it has. Obviously, they have a lot more information about each VIN # than that, they just don't publish it. That's how they were able to match Performance buyers with AWD cars that have drive units that tested well enough to handle Performance levels of current (before they started giving them different part numbers).

 

[ModelNforNerd]

 

[StealthP3D]

View attachment 447920

Unfortunately, the horse is not dead, it's still kicking!

At least with a couple of die-hards.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Unfortunately, the horse is not dead, it's still kicking!

At least with a couple of die-hards.

42 pages. no resolution, no agreement, no movement.


it's dead, guys.

 

[StealthP3D]

42 pages. no resolution, no agreement, no movement.

Well, we've learned that Tesla now assigns different part numbers to the Performance and AWD drivetrains. That should have put this to rest. But apparently not.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Still waiting for that mic drop moment. Come on guys, I know you can do it!

 

[Knightshade]

You keep making sweeping claims about the "actual evidence" while never actually providing any evidence that is compelling to your beliefs.

You mean besides the entire thread dedicated to pictures of rear drive units confirming they are all 980s regardless of coming on a P or AWD up until a couple months ago?

As contrasted against your evidence there's any super sekreit hidden code that still makes them different for which you have... literally no support or evidence of any kind?

Having the same part number does not ensure the parts are identical. In fact, we know that manufactured parts have variation

Not enough to be worth another PN though. So when you order a replacement drive unit for a P or an AWD (built prior to a few months ago) you'd be ordering the same part.

The variation is significant enough that Tesla even told us they bin the drive units specifically for the higher current levels of the Performance version.

No, they didn't

Elon made an off-hand tweet about it- prior to any Ps actually being sold, though. And we've never had a single shred of evidence of anything beyond that.

The fact that they gave them a part number before they were tested and binned doesn't change this fact.

That's be pretty weird... since everyone else in the industry who actually does binning gives things with significantly different performance different PNs.

Intel for example when a CPU meets the standard for say an i7-XXXX it gets the PN for that CPU. Then it only meets the standards for an i7-YYYY it gets a different PN.

This way you know by PN what it's capable of- and when a warranty replacement for a part happens, they ship the correct part to actually replace it.

That was on the first, early-production units.

If by early production you mean literally every rear DU every put into a model 3 in 2017 and 2018, and for several months early this year, sure.

Now they give them different part numbers (which is all the proof you need to know that Performance and AWD drive units are different).

Again you don't seem to understand you are contradicting yourself.

You: THEY DO NOT NEED DIFFERENT PNS TO BE DIFFERENT! SAME PN DOES NOT MEAN ANYTHING!

also You: SEE! THEY HAVE DIFFERENT PNS NOW SO THAT IS PROOF THEY ARE DIFFERENT!

This should be the end of the story but some very stubborn people want to continue to insist the early production drive units must be the same based solely on the part number thingy.

And there you do it again

It is the end of the story.

Everything up until a few months ago is the same part, with the same PN.

In the last few months there's now actually a different part and we know that because it has a different PN


Not sure where exactly you keep getting confused about all this.

 

[GateFather]

Well, we've learned that Tesla now assigns different part numbers to the Performance and AWD drivetrains. That should have put this to rest. But apparently not.

I'm not ready to say never is never on this one. As an AWD owner who regrets not purchasing a performance, I'm holding out hope until I get my next Tesla at which time I won't make the same mistake again

As I said, I love my AWD and it's PLENTY fast - but I'm a "what-if" type personality and I can't stop asking myself that question all the time. I wouldn't trade my AWD for anything....except a Performance

 

[dennistdk]

That should have put this to rest. But apparently not.

Not quite. You are still forgetting the fact about the "20% increase" software version that a few AWD owners now have that gives the roughly the same accelleration as performance without turning it into the P3D- (track mode and so on). So let's just wait a few months and see what happens.

 

[jebinc]

Please spare the rest of us from your ongoing lover's quarrel.
A few posts, fine... - but pages of posts is getting old. Thank you.

 

[GateFather]

It would be so great if he answered....unlikely. I wouldn't even mind too much if the answer was no, at least we'd know.

And yes I got the forum wrong, woops.

 

[ConcordeSST]

Not quite. You are still forgetting the fact about the "20% increase" software version that a few AWD owners now have that gives the roughly the same accelleration as performance without turning it into the P3D- (track mode and so on). So let's just wait a few months and see what happens.

Do you have any more information? Any published sources discussing this? I'm not questioning the veracity of this, I am just really curious to hear more about it.

 

[JulienW]

I'm having chicken for lunch. Is there a consensus yet?

 

[Rothgarr]

I'm having chicken for lunch. Is there a consensus yet?

I had chicken-flavored ramen noddles, does that count?

 

[boriszima]

It would be so great if he answered....unlikely. I wouldn't even mind too much if the answer was no, at least we'd know.

View attachment 447955

And yes I got the forum wrong, woops.

Thanks.

so evidently this thread grew a lot. I hope to find out early next year about this.

 

[GateFather]

I'm having chicken for lunch. Is there a consensus yet?

We have a consensus!! It is that there is no consensus.

 

[StealthP3D]

Please spare the rest of us from your ongoing lover's quarrel.
A few posts, fine... - but pages of posts is getting old.

Nobody is making you read them. So the joke is on you.

 

[StealthP3D]

It would be so great if he answered....unlikely. I wouldn't even mind too much if the answer was no, at least we'd know.
View attachment 447955

Nobody has argued that it's not possible to turn all AWDs into Performance models. Simply loading Performance software will do that. It becomes an issue of failure rate/warranty cost/bad publicity. The difference seems to be that a few people think that Tesla doesn't bin the drive units like Elon said they were doing. And they base this entirely on the fact that they weren't giving the Performance drive units different part numbers, presumably just recording the serial numbers of ones that tested high enough.

If they found that all drive units met the spec necessary for Performance models, then the possibility remains open that Tesla would offer an after-purchase upgrade. However, if some AWD drive units are not up to that much current, then Tesla would likely never offer an after-purchase upgrade simply because they know they can't offer it to every AWD owner.

However, it's unclear to me why those who don't believe Elon Musk when he said they were binning the Performance drive units would all of a sudden believe him if he said they can't offer upgrades to all AWD owners so they won't offer it to any.

The best hope for those AWD owners who want Performance levels of performance out of their AWD Model 3's is the possibility that a third party will crack the security and offer an aftermarket upgrade. This would be worth a lot of money. But don't come crying to me if your Silicon Carbide inverter goes 'poof'.

 

[EricUSC]

Not quite. You are still forgetting the fact about the "20% increase" software version that a few AWD owners now have that gives the roughly the same accelleration as performance without turning it into the P3D- (track mode and so on). So let's just wait a few months and see what happens.

Do these 20% increase AWD cars in Europe have 980 or 990 motors? If any have 990 motors, this could give us a clue on the capabilities of 990 motors.

 

[GateFather]

Nobody has argued that it's not possible to turn all AWDs into Performance models. Simply loading Performance software will do that. It becomes an issue of failure rate/warranty cost/bad publicity. The difference seems to be that a few people think that Tesla doesn't bin the drive units like Elon said they were doing. And they base this entirely on the fact that they weren't giving the Performance drive units different part numbers, presumably just recording the serial numbers of ones that tested high enough.

If they found that all drive units met the spec necessary for Performance models, then the possibility remains open that Tesla would offer an after-purchase upgrade. However, if some AWD drive units are not up to that much current, then Tesla would likely never offer an after-purchase upgrade simply because they know they can't offer it to every AWD owner.

However, it's unclear to me why those who don't believe Elon Musk when he said they were binning the Performance drive units would all of a sudden believe him if he said they can't offer upgrades to all AWD owners so they won't offer it to any.

The best hope for those AWD owners who want Performance levels of performance out of their AWD Model 3's is the possibility that a third party will crack the security and offer an aftermarket upgrade. This would be worth a lot of money. But don't come crying to me if your Silicon Carbide inverter goes 'poof'.

Understood. I get the arguments both ways, and I'm not sure they'd know failure rates on AWD binned motors any better or worse than they'd know them on Performance binned motors.

If Elon came out and said that they can't offer upgrades to all AWD owners so they won't offer it to any, I'm not sure anyone could do anything but nod their head and move on. Maybe in disagreement with the decision, but move on none-the-less. Sure we can continue to petition but at the end of the day, what I'm looking for (and I think a lot of others here) is just a definitive answer to "is it even possible."

If what you're saying is that there is agreement that it's possible, but simply not agreement that its either 1) a good idea due to failure rates or 2) that Tesla will ever do it due to the unknown answer to the question of whether ALL AWD cars could get it, then to be honest, this thread is of less interest to me.

I'm still stuck back at, is it even possible?