Four Rial Lugano 19" wheels bent in two weeks - are they up to the task?

[kevincwelch]

The Rials definitely are heavy.

I have had no issues with the Rials at all this winter. (I had to have them rebalanced, but that was Tire Rack's fault, strangely.) The roads around here have been pretty crappy. No issues. Rims looks great, and the drive is pretty smooth. I contemplated ordering a second pair for my summer tires, but I decided to powder coat my stock wheels instead.

 

[yobigd20]

May be a silly question, but would that affect rolling resistance/efficiency?

definitely. google 'unsprung weight' and 'rotational mass'.

lighter wheels = less rotational mass.

Reducing rotating weight has direct effect on improving "fuel economy", faster acceleration, and better handling.


there's a reason why lightweight 1 piece forged wheels cost like $1500-$2500 per rim....

but the reality of it all is that you will never make up for the cost of the rims with the savings you get from better efficiency....really because a set might cost you $6k-$10k. I've already got close to 40k miles on my MS now. Assuming I paid for all of that kW myself (which I didnt since I charge 50% at work), that'd still only cost me like $2k in electricity. so if I got lightweight aftermarket rims for lets say $1500 each, the full set at $6k would be equivalent to paying for 120,000 miles of electrical usage. So to make my money back from "savings", I'd have to save 120,000 miles through efficiency. Even if a lightweight wheel improved efficiency by 10%, that'd be like 1.2 million miles I'd have to drive to make my money back. In a GASOLINE powered car, you'd make your money back 3-5x faster since ICE cars are super inefficient. but we're talking about electric cars here....sooo the whole notion of getting lightweight aftermarket wheels to increase efficiency is kind of moot. If I were to rationalize a purchase of lightweight rims, I'd reason it's for better performance and handling rather than for efficiency.

 

[Chris TX]

definitely. google 'unsprung weight' and 'rotational mass'.

lighter wheels = less rotational mass.

Reducing rotating weight has direct effect on improving "fuel economy", faster acceleration, and better handling.

If you keep a constant speed, the weight of the wheel will have a close to nill affect on fuel economy. Now, larger wheels/lower profile tires will mean a stiffer sidewall which should improve economy if the tread and compound are the same.

However, acceleration is absolutely affected by wheel weight, but in very tiny degrees.

 

[RainmakerJL]

I have had the rials for a month now and potholes in New York City are legend. No issues.....

 

[JST]

If you keep a constant speed, the weight of the wheel will have a close to nill affect on fuel economy. Now, larger wheels/lower profile tires will mean a stiffer sidewall which should improve economy if the tread and compound are the same.

However, acceleration is absolutely affected by wheel weight, but in very tiny degrees.

Agree on the constant speed point. Heavy wheels will take their toll during acceleration, but won't increase rolling resistance (well, some, but only in the same way that adding 30 lbs elsewhere to the car would).

Heavy wheels also increase unsprung weight, which increases the inertia of the suspension/wheel assemblies. That's bad--it makes it harder for the wheels to react quickly to bumps and heaves. That impact on handling is probably the biggest downside to heavy wheels, and why so many people spend so much on lightweight rims.

Honestly, though, these are the kinds of thing that you worry about on your track or autocross car, not you 2.5 ton family car. If you like the way the Rials look, get them--they're probably still lighter than the OEM 21s. But if you are sort of indifferent about appearance, lighter wheels will offer a series of marginal benefits.

 

[jerry33]

May be a silly question, but would that [wheel weight] affect rolling resistance/efficiency?

Yes, but not as much as the tires do. The components that affect the power required to move the wheel and tire assembly are:

1. The up and down movement of the assembly over road irregularities. (This takes energy to overcome.)

2. The rotational movement (mostly on acceleration). The closer the weight is to the centre of rotation, the less effect there is. So tires are more important than wheels. Smaller diameter wheels are better than larger diameter wheels. Lighter wheels are better than heavier wheels but because the rim portion of the wheel has to be able to contain the pressure of the tire, there is only so much weight that can be removed from the rim portion. The spokes and hub of the wheel don't add as much to the rotational momentum as the rim portion does, so it's the design of the spoke portion that will make more of a difference. That's why the Aero wheels get better range on highway even though they weigh a ton.

3. Moving the mass of assembly forward. No different than the rest of the car so it's just a fraction. ( assembly weight / total weight )

4. Aerodynamic resistance of the assembly and whether or not it increases the aerodynamic qualities of the car as a whole.

5. Width. Slender wheels and tires tend to improve rolling resistance, aerodynamic resistance, and often weight as well. (They also improve traction on wet or snow and ice covered surfaces at the expense of some cornering g-force.)

 

[xhawk101]

Wondering if those bent rims may have occurred due to concurrent turning of the wheel in the pothole. I'm certain this would magnify the risk of damage to any rim and should be considered as a possible precipitant.

 

[vgrinshpun]

Wondering if those bent rims may have occurred due to concurrent turning of the wheel in the pothole. I'm certain this would magnify the risk of damage to any rim and should be considered as a possible precipitant.

I was traveling straight at 30-35mph when running over each of the pot holes which bent my wheels, no turning was involved.

 

[xhawk101]

I was traveling straight at 30-35mph when running over each of the pot holes which bent my wheels, no turning was involved.

Perhaps the particular angle that a pothole may produce then?

 

[jerry33]

Perhaps the particular angle that a pothole may produce then?

Usually if a pothole is hit at an angle to the wheel, the tire is ruined by a pinch shock. (Pinch shock: damage that occurs when the rim flange cuts through or partially cuts through the sidewall of the tire.)

 

[vgrinshpun]

Perhaps the particular angle that a pothole may produce then?

It was after the dark both times, so can't comment on this, except as jerry33 pointed out angled impact would likely damage the tires. Not only my tires are intact, I do not see any marks on the (rather soft) compound of the tread.

- - - Updated - - -

Just to make it clear - the tires were inspected very closely by me and guys at the tire shop I use. Two tires were already removed from the bent wheels and re-mounted on the new wheels that I bought from TR, so they were inspected from outside and inside - no visible damage.

The two other tires are still on the bent wheels attached to the car. I have took both of these wheels off and inspected tires from outside - no visible damage.

 

[AndreyATC]

Rolling resistance should not be affected
There might be some unnoticible loss in acceleration due to extra unsprung weight, but it's irrelevant for winter driving
The difference is too insignificant anyways
I like my rims strong for the winter potholes
Hopefully it's the case with Luganos

 

[vgrinshpun]

BTW, according to the correspondence I received, the Tire Rack company owner uses Rial Lugano wheels with winter tires on his Model S.

 

[HankLloydRight]

I'm pretty sure I'm going to be selling my P85+ 21" rims and tires and getting the 19" RLs.

I just need to find a local buyer.

 

[mknox]

Rolling resistance should not be affected
There might be some unnoticible loss in acceleration due to extra unsprung weight, but it's irrelevant for winter driving
The difference is too insignificant anyways
I like my rims strong for the winter potholes
Hopefully it's the case with Luganos

I've installed my winter tires on the stock Tesla 19's and was planning to use the 19" Luganos with my summer tires.

 

[wycolo]

> In my case the wheels are bent WITHOUT any cracks or chips, which is indication of weakened material of the wheels, i.e. that they are defective. [vgrinshpun]

I suggest the opposite, that these rims performed admirably. The last thing you want to see on an impacted rim is cracks since that would be *game over*. The bends appear smooth and symmetrical and all to the inside. Why not try yourself to bend them back to even with a hydraulic jack and some wood blocks? Which is just what a shop would do. Using NO heat! Apply the force opposite to the impact point spread over 3 to 4 inches worth of wood. These would make a nice set of winter rims.
--

 

[RainmakerJL]

**update**. I installed 4 of the luganos about a 4-5 weeks ago and I was experience a rough ride after a modest pothole on saturday night. 3 of my 4 rims are bent according to tesla. Gonna take it back to the place that mounted the tires and see if they can repair the rims... fingers crossed.

 

[dsm363]

**update**. I installed 4 of the luganos about a 4-5 weeks ago and I was experience a rough ride after a modest pothole on saturday night. 3 of my 4 rims are bent according to tesla. Gonna take it back to the place that mounted the tires and see if they can repair the rims... fingers crossed.

I was seriously considering getting these rims. Now I'm hoping for a Tesla 19" turbine solution.

 

[mknox]

**update**. I installed 4 of the luganos about a 4-5 weeks ago and I was experience a rough ride after a modest pothole on saturday night. 3 of my 4 rims are bent according to tesla. Gonna take it back to the place that mounted the tires and see if they can repair the rims... fingers crossed.

That must have been a hell of a pothole if it caught both sides of your car (as implied by the 3 bent rims).

This is very disheartening. I'm now torn over what to do with my summer rubber (put my new winter tires on my stock Tesla 19's).

 

[ecarfan]

I was seriously considering getting these rims. Now I'm hoping for a Tesla 19" turbine solution.

How is the currently offered 19" Cyclone wheel different from your desire for a "19" turbine solution"?

I recognize that the Tesla "Turbine" style wheel is slightly different from the "Cyclone", but they look pretty similar to me.