Silicon Desert
Well-Known Member
often, I don't understand comments like this. If it has happened "many times" to you and you think it is "very dangerous" then why do you still do it?
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FSD Beta 10.69
- Thread starter Buckminster
- Start date
The NTSB/NHTSA are very much aware of the behavior behind these things and look at lags between disengagement of a system like AP/FSP and an incident.
Teslas can even record and track driver engagement data like when the system throws alerts asking for wheel torque, whether the driver appeared to respond to the alert by providing the feedback, and other stuff leading up to the incident -- this is currently a major focus of the Autopilot + First Responder scene investigation as the NHTSA determined that the driver engagement processes were functioning as designed while they careened towards stopped emergency vehicles with a driver that was obviously not at all engaged in the DDT.
Teslas can even record and track driver engagement data like when the system throws alerts asking for wheel torque, whether the driver appeared to respond to the alert by providing the feedback, and other stuff leading up to the incident -- this is currently a major focus of the Autopilot + First Responder scene investigation as the NHTSA determined that the driver engagement processes were functioning as designed while they careened towards stopped emergency vehicles with a driver that was obviously not at all engaged in the DDT.
PACEMD
Active Member
You know, it's like the certain death of having to tap the screen twice to check the tire pressure at 100 mph, simply irresistible......no way to avoid it.......
Or phantom braking that keeps happening every few miles and then there's a car two inches behind you on the freeway at 90 mph, and phantom braking kills you. How could you avoid that?
I just got FSDb with 10.69.2.2 and have all of the negative experiences you've mentioned here which is ok for me because I'm just excited to now be in the beta.
What I am upset about is that Navigate on Auto Pilot feels like it's a few revisions behind now. Hugging the lanes always and feels out of control when there is no leading car, very reminiscent of when I first got my MY in 03/2021.
I did just enable the blended braking with auto regen and as according to the release notes the car is not using it's radar anymore, maybe it'll (or i will) need to get used to these changes?
willow_hiller
Well-Known Member
bhakan
MSLR MSM/Blk/19/FSD, Ord 6/10/21, Del 2/20/22
I got the second strike today (I posted my first strike on post #2760) in less than half mile of driving on the local roads near my neighborhood. Again, it happened when it was darker and within 2-3 secs after I engage the AP. I am holding my yoke with torque and I disengage the AP right away. But after 5 or 6 warnings it says i cannot use the AP for the rest of the drive and at the end told me i have 3 more strikes left. This is totally unfair as it is not my fault. I am pressing the video record button each time. I have also emailed the Earlyaccess email address telling them there is a cabin camera or some other issue. Don't have faith that Tesla is going to do anything. My SC told me they cannot do anything when I created a service request asking them to check the cabin camera. They wanted me to contact early access. I want to use AP without FSD and it seems like i have to ask Tesla to remove my VIN and then later join the queue whenever I decide to. As someone who have used AP from 2017 this is totally frustrating as it is not my fault. Disappointed in Tesla's FSDB program.
Got into the beta this past week and it definitely feels like the beta is “overfit” for some of the YouTubers and other early testers.
Driving it around Greenville SC downtown and through Simpsonville, Mauldin and Fountain Inn it has a lot of issues.
Like others I’m not a fan of the lateral jerk in the current beta when accelerating while turning. Turn signals are turned on too late (yes I know maybe it’s the precise legal distance but most drivers turn them on ahead of a turn almost twice as early as FSDb does). Going into my neighborhood it waited until the last second and slammed on brakes to make the turn.
Acceleration should be adjustable based on the speed limit of the street. If it’s 25 and a neighborhood FSD shouldn’t floor it to max speed - it feels incredibly unsafe and my neighbors probably think I’m a jerk. And yes I’ve stopped turning it on from my driveway due to this but I wanted to test from the true start of a trip the whole way to see how it does.
Other issues: a bit too close to Parked cars in the street, tends to hug the center line more than most drivers would especially on sharper turns - this makes oncoming traffic (and me!) uncomfortable. Turning right at a light it tends to swing wide and over correct back - it got close to hitting other cars twice already when doing this and I intervened. Following distance even on fsdb “chill” mode is way too close. The car tends to wait until late and then apply a lot of brakes versus using regen braking to slow gently like I do coming up to a stoplight.
Major fail: in Greenville we have an interchange off woodruff road where you get onto I-385 then immediately take a gentle exit right to I-85 then have to merge and move over a lane to take a left exit to get onto I-85. FSD merged really late without a signal and then jumped over the two lanes left and actually tried to drive in the left shoulder as if it was a lane. It was like a teenager panicking and I had to take over - it crossed a solid yellow to get into the shoulder. Attached an image of this section of road which is admittedly a bit complex. It’s not that hard for drivers around here to manage the exit right then merge and exit left though.
The good: have had a few trips with no interventions and just minor things they could be polished more. I do think it has a lot of promise and I hope providing them more testing data from upstate South Carolina will help them improve.
In the model X refresh does anyone know how I report failures to the FSD team? Do I hit the dash cam button? I don’t have the same kind of button on the top of the UI that say chuck cook shows in his videos that he presses to report an issue.
Driving it around Greenville SC downtown and through Simpsonville, Mauldin and Fountain Inn it has a lot of issues.
Like others I’m not a fan of the lateral jerk in the current beta when accelerating while turning. Turn signals are turned on too late (yes I know maybe it’s the precise legal distance but most drivers turn them on ahead of a turn almost twice as early as FSDb does). Going into my neighborhood it waited until the last second and slammed on brakes to make the turn.
Acceleration should be adjustable based on the speed limit of the street. If it’s 25 and a neighborhood FSD shouldn’t floor it to max speed - it feels incredibly unsafe and my neighbors probably think I’m a jerk. And yes I’ve stopped turning it on from my driveway due to this but I wanted to test from the true start of a trip the whole way to see how it does.
Other issues: a bit too close to Parked cars in the street, tends to hug the center line more than most drivers would especially on sharper turns - this makes oncoming traffic (and me!) uncomfortable. Turning right at a light it tends to swing wide and over correct back - it got close to hitting other cars twice already when doing this and I intervened. Following distance even on fsdb “chill” mode is way too close. The car tends to wait until late and then apply a lot of brakes versus using regen braking to slow gently like I do coming up to a stoplight.
Major fail: in Greenville we have an interchange off woodruff road where you get onto I-385 then immediately take a gentle exit right to I-85 then have to merge and move over a lane to take a left exit to get onto I-85. FSD merged really late without a signal and then jumped over the two lanes left and actually tried to drive in the left shoulder as if it was a lane. It was like a teenager panicking and I had to take over - it crossed a solid yellow to get into the shoulder. Attached an image of this section of road which is admittedly a bit complex. It’s not that hard for drivers around here to manage the exit right then merge and exit left though.
The good: have had a few trips with no interventions and just minor things they could be polished more. I do think it has a lot of promise and I hope providing them more testing data from upstate South Carolina will help them improve.
In the model X refresh does anyone know how I report failures to the FSD team? Do I hit the dash cam button? I don’t have the same kind of button on the top of the UI that say chuck cook shows in his videos that he presses to report an issue.
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bhakan
MSLR MSM/Blk/19/FSD, Ord 6/10/21, Del 2/20/22
On your main screen which you can get to by selecting the car icon from the bottom tray, there is a video button next to your profile, homelink, bluetooth, and wifi. You press that video button to report. Once you press that video record button there should be a dialog on your center dash where you see the AP etc that says' Autopilot snapshot sent" something like that. It is not straight forward for our S and X unlike 3 and Y.
Agree on you blinker comment. Is there anyone on this forum who doesn't believe Tesla should enable blinkers sooner?
It should come on when there's an intent to change lanes, like moving into a dedicated turn lane. Currently if it's a long lane, the car moves over without blinkers, then turns it on at some distance from the stop line. If it's a short turn lane, by coincidence the blinkers come on around the right time.
Agree but also blinkers come on far too late when making a simple left or right turn so people behind you know your making the turn.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
FWIW, I've never seen FSD come remotely close to using "max acceleration" of the vehicle- and with regular AP it's long been documented the max acceleration it CAN command is far lower than full...
What is happening is, compared to an ICE vehicle, acceleration of any significance feels unexpected and sudden if you're not the one doing it- so even half throttle "feels" surprisingly quick if you don't know it's coming... (I've had this complaint from passengers in the past- when they're not paying any attention and I accelerate even 1/2 or 3/4-- after which I usually show them what full throttle actually feels like- and explain the "don't know it's coming" aspect of EV acceleration without any warning noise from a revving engine)
That said- I suppose in an SR it might be using more of its available acceleration-- but in an LR or P it's definitely NOT using close to max (IIRC Chuck has a g meter in some of his videos that also proves this if you don't wanna take my word for it)
What is happening is, compared to an ICE vehicle, acceleration of any significance feels unexpected and sudden if you're not the one doing it- so even half throttle "feels" surprisingly quick if you don't know it's coming... (I've had this complaint from passengers in the past- when they're not paying any attention and I accelerate even 1/2 or 3/4-- after which I usually show them what full throttle actually feels like- and explain the "don't know it's coming" aspect of EV acceleration without any warning noise from a revving engine)
That said- I suppose in an SR it might be using more of its available acceleration-- but in an LR or P it's definitely NOT using close to max (IIRC Chuck has a g meter in some of his videos that also proves this if you don't wanna take my word for it)
skydve1
Member
1000% agree, and it used to be much better.
I found an e-mail I sent to the Beta team on 10/28/2021, when I was on v10.3.1.
I measured out where it was signaling for 'normal' roads (using google maps, and observing when the signal was initiated), and it was consistently about 600ft. It was signaling BEFORE slowing down, which is what I'd do myself.
My comment to them was that while the regular roads were good - when getting off of an interstate exit, it starts to slow down about 600ft from the exit ramp, and signaled less an 100ft from the ramp, all of which will cause issues.
Of course, I never heard anything back.
It got worse with each release after that point.They really need a feedback/ticket system for this stuff.
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Agree that if you're not the one controlling accel, it feels stronger. Kinda like how passengers in a stick shift car feels more jarring from the shifting (both accel and decel) than the driver.
But FSDb can do better at choosing how much acceleration to use, in this case I believe it was a 25mph residential road. Yes it's nowhere close to max accel, but could be a lot lower.
Some of this will be personal preference. But I think the most comfortable ride is one where you're not feeling a lot of g's in any direction. FSDb is not yet smart enough to know when it needs to accelerate to match speeds and when it's all alone.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
There's a bit of a balacing act too... up until a few versions ago most complaints were it didn't accelerate ENOUGH through turns... Chuck Cook often made this point in his videos, and was super happy when they noticeably increased acceleration- and I agreed with him in that before that I'd often see cases where I knew the car could easily and safely make a turn ahead of coming traffic with a decent amount of go pedal but it'd not do it and now it does--- but I also agree with you that the most likely problem here is there's not (nearly, or maybe any) programming around when it needs to use what level for the conditions involved.
Yes but Chuck's UPL turn has crossing traffic going 60mph far different then what most here are complaining about.
And at least wait till the car is going straight after the 90 degree turn before hard acceleration.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
I think that was nvx1977s point though- the current system isn't considering type and speed of oncoming traffic- it just has some "accelerate at X for turns" code in there it applies regardless of conditions. Previously it was too slow for some situations, now it's too fast for some.
Yeah whenever the car accelerates too fast (often when no one is around), I think to myself that this accel could be useful if I were entering a tight gap or high speed traffic, but def inappropriate for this no-traffic-in-sight residential right turn. Compound this with a very timid and slow creep before the turn, and it's just a big facepalm.
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