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FSD is worth the price. Change my mind.

My question stems from a somewhat off-topic discussion in the "Model X Refresh Waiting Room" thread that many seem to have strong opinions on one way or another. I wanted to break this off into a separate discussion to stay on topic.

In my opinion, FSD is worth the price you pay for the Model X. (Specifically the X)

I don't believe it is accurate to look at FSD as full autonomy, or assume you will ever obtain it in the lifetime of the car. Look at it from the perspective of paying $10,000 to add a feature set:
  • Lane changes on highway (overtake slower cars)
  • On and Off ramps for highway
  • App summoning features - drive/navigate through a parking lot
  • Use the key fob to drive the car forwards and backwards (useful for tight spaces or when over a deep puddle)
  • Autopark
  • Stop sign and stop light aware stopping
  • Future release - additional options at a later date (likely more within your span of ownership)
  • Raised value - Remember when FSD was $5,000 in May of 2019? In under 3 years I added $5k of value to my 2017 X (market inflation set aside)
For me, considering the already overly-elaborate car we are buying.. adding this set of features for less than 9% of my car's configuration is an easy decision to make.

Don't think of FSD as full autonomy - otherwise you will be disappointed and disgruntled. Maybe it is better renamed "Premium Autonomous Features".

People seem to have some compelling arguments in both directions. I am curious to hear. :)
 

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Moderator
Nov 28, 2018
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Riverside Co. CA
There is a ton of discussion on "is FSD worth it" already on TMC, in the dedicated subforum for FSD discussions, which is here:


Perhaps you might want to join in on the discussion on the topic in one of the various threads there.. but if you do, you likely want to ensure you are ready for fairly strong opinions that do not match your own.
 
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ngng

Active Member
Jul 23, 2018
1,737
965
Bay Area
FSD is an easy decision for me as well. I'd rather dump it in the market. After driving "FSD" cars I think AP1 is the best AP version. It does exactly what I need it to: reduce driver fatigue on highways

  • Lane changes on highway (overtake slower cars):
    • I disengage AP before I pass, but AP1 can do this with a user input
  • On and Off ramps for highway
    • I 100% want to be in control while merging
  • App summoning features - drive/navigate through a parking lot
    • I've used this once and it took to open the app, locate the car, get a GPS lock, and then finally move it than if I were to just get in the car
  • Use the key fob to drive the car forwards and backwards (useful for tight spaces or when over a deep puddle)
    • Have never had to do this
  • Autopark
    • Has almost hit parked cars multiple times
  • Stop sign and stop light aware stopping
    • The green light notification is nice, but not for $10k
  • Future release - additional options at a later date (likely more within your span of ownership)
    • 2 weeks, right?
  • Raised value - Remember when FSD was $5,000 in May of 2019? In under 3 years I added $5k of value to my 2017 X (market inflation set aside)
    • Used, FSD doesn't really add value IMO, but the jury is out on that
 
Depends how you plan to use your car and for how long. If you do a lot of road trips, at least enough to justify having the subscription most of the time and you plan to keep your car longer than 4 years, 2 months - then the $10K can work out nicely. That $10k isn't going to be a huge percentage of your car's total cost (vs Model 3 SR+) and if you can afford a Model X, then $10K isn't going to break the bank.

Of course, $10K is still a lot of money that could be better spent if you aren't planning to use that feature enough to justify that initial cost. Party tricks aside, the real value of FSD will come when city driving is finally released and working well - which is likely going to take a few years (software is hard).

For me, I plan to subscribe to FSD for 2 months in the Summer and December when we do most of our family road trips. I'm probably not keeping my current car 12 years.
 

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
11,267
10,304
Visalia, CA
  • Raised value - Remember when FSD was $5,000 in May of 2019? In under 3 years I added $5k of value to my 2017 X (market inflation set aside)

The price was threatened to keep rising with the climax to justify why $10,000 is a bargain in Autonomy Day: Not buying FSD (that can make you $30,000 year after year for a one-time investment of $10,000) is just like buying a horse.

FSD beta is now seen on youtube and it's just like a horse that the driver has to guide the FSD to make sure it doesn't cause a collision while the promise of a return of $30,000 annually is still not fulfilled.

The graph below saw a spike in FSD demand after the claim of $30,000 annually revenue and the threat of price increase to $10,000:


However, once the FSD has risen to $10,000 and there's no $30,000 revenue realized, the demand went down again.

For those who paid FSD $5,000. That's not all that you paid.

To get that price, you had to already pay Enhanced Autopilot first at $3,000 pre-delivery or $4,000 post-delivery.

If you add FSD post-delivery, it's $6,000 in addition to the above Enhanced Autopilot price.

Then, for those who are unlucky that got MCU1, don't forget to include the $2,500 MCU2 upgrade (prior to labor and taxes)

Thus, an old $5,000 FSD is actually not $5,000, it's double that price at least!

If you can afford it, then that's fine but to justify that you only paid a bargain for an old 2017 FSD at $5,000 is false.
 
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ngng

Active Member
Jul 23, 2018
1,737
965
Bay Area
Depends how you plan to use your car and for how long. If you do a lot of road trips, at least enough to justify having the subscription most of the time and you plan to keep your car longer than 4 years, 2 months - then the $10K can work out nicely. That $10k isn't going to be a huge percentage of your car's total cost (vs Model 3 SR+) and if you can afford a Model X, then $10K isn't going to break the bank.

Of course, $10K is still a lot of money that could be better spent if you aren't planning to use that feature enough to justify that initial cost. Party tricks aside, the real value of FSD will come when city driving is finally released and working well - which is likely going to take a few years (software is hard).

For me, I plan to subscribe to FSD for 2 months in the Summer and December when we do most of our family road trips. I'm probably not keeping my current car 12 years.

If we're only talking about new cars, then every one of them already has basic AP. What more do you need for a road trip?
 

mswlogo

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2018
8,103
7,596
MA, NH
My question stems from a somewhat off-topic discussion in the "Model X Refresh Waiting Room" thread that many seem to have strong opinions on one way or another. I wanted to break this off into a separate discussion to stay on topic.

In my opinion, FSD is worth the price you pay for the Model X. (Specifically the X)

I don't believe it is accurate to look at FSD as full autonomy, or assume you will ever obtain it in the lifetime of the car. Look at it from the perspective of paying $10,000 to add a feature set:
  • Lane changes on highway (overtake slower cars)
  • On and Off ramps for highway
  • App summoning features - drive/navigate through a parking lot
  • Use the key fob to drive the car forwards and backwards (useful for tight spaces or when over a deep puddle)
  • Autopark
  • Stop sign and stop light aware stopping
  • Future release - additional options at a later date (likely more within your span of ownership)
  • Raised value - Remember when FSD was $5,000 in May of 2019? In under 3 years I added $5k of value to my 2017 X (market inflation set aside)
For me, considering the already overly-elaborate car we are buying.. adding this set of features for less than 9% of my car's configuration is an easy decision to make.

Don't think of FSD as full autonomy - otherwise you will be disappointed and disgruntled. Maybe it is better renamed "Premium Autonomous Features".

People seem to have some compelling arguments in both directions. I am curious to hear. :)
The only thing I use on that list is lane change. With the blinker. The rest is Alpha, at best.

One other feature I like. It goes beep when the light turns green. Not sure that’s even part of FSD. I paid $6K and if I bought another car I would not pay $10K.
 
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The EAP features are worth it: autopark; NOA. Summon is a slow novelty here in the U.K.

we have FSD on our model 3, EAP on our model S.

FSD is more nuisance than help. The stopping at any light is a nice safety feature but with the frequency of PELICAN crossings and intersections in urban areas it is a nuisance. The camera-based speed limit would be great, except it spots wonky 20mph signs on side streets and sets that in a 30mph zone. Since we rarely have repeater signs for 30mph zones 20mph becomes your new top autopilot speed. The only useful feature is the ‘hey, the light is on GREEN’ beeper. But while that might be useful on a model S, the model 3 view, and that of the model x means you have to be weirdly positioned to not be able to see the lights at any intersection in those vehicles.

FSD is an interesting novelty but EAP is worthwhile. For now, the two are available to order for model S and model X: £3,400 for EAP. +£3,400 for FSD. I only configured EAP in my, ‘2022’ (2023?) model X order.

However, if FSD is the only option then, like on our model 3, I’d get it for the EAP features.
 
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gangzoom

Active Member
May 22, 2014
1,605
1,505
Uk
For those who paid FSD $5,000. That's not all that you paid.

For the FSD 'fire sale' Tesla did back in 2019 it was true. I went from zero AP (none at all because I'm cheap and didn't order it for our X back in 2016), to FSD for £4500 during the 'fire sale'.

I have subsequently 'upgraded' to MCU2, but that was going to be done anyways as I'm keeping the car longterm.

The current price for going from NO AP to FSD is £9,700.

I would say even at £4,500 for most sane people FSD Isn't worth the asking price and at £9,700 is madness.

51510257368_c695942a40_c_d.jpg
 
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I got it for $5k as well. I use AP/FSD every time I drive and it'll be hard going without.

The green light chime is such a simply and useful feature. I was behind a M3 at a light the other day and had to hit the horn to get them to move when it turned green. We're all guilty of messing around with our phones (or entertainment system) and it's not getting any better.

My question stems from a somewhat off-topic discussion in the "Model X Refresh Waiting Room" thread that many seem to have strong opinions on one way or another. I wanted to break this off into a separate discussion to stay on topic.

In my opinion, FSD is worth the price you pay for the Model X. (Specifically the X)

I don't believe it is accurate to look at FSD as full autonomy, or assume you will ever obtain it in the lifetime of the car. Look at it from the perspective of paying $10,000 to add a feature set:
  • Lane changes on highway (overtake slower cars)
  • On and Off ramps for highway
  • App summoning features - drive/navigate through a parking lot
  • Use the key fob to drive the car forwards and backwards (useful for tight spaces or when over a deep puddle)
  • Autopark
  • Stop sign and stop light aware stopping
  • Future release - additional options at a later date (likely more within your span of ownership)
  • Raised value - Remember when FSD was $5,000 in May of 2019? In under 3 years I added $5k of value to my 2017 X (market inflation set aside)
For me, considering the already overly-elaborate car we are buying.. adding this set of features for less than 9% of my car's configuration is an easy decision to make.

Don't think of FSD as full autonomy - otherwise you will be disappointed and disgruntled. Maybe it is better renamed "Premium Autonomous Features".

People seem to have some compelling arguments in both directions. I am curious to hear. :)
 
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If we're only talking about new cars, then every one of them already has basic AP. What more do you need for a road trip?

Yeah, I was assuming new cars. Existing cars, especially if you don't even have basic AP, then FSD would be an easier sell. I'm very content with basic AP, but once city driving is finally added to FSD - then it might be worth it. New cars don't have the "enhanced autopilot" as an upgrade option - so either basic AP or FSD. In theory, FSD takes basic AP to the next level - or, at least it will in some future version.

My plan is to subscribe when I want it - which will give me a chance to evaluate weather or not it would be worth having enabled all the time. After testing it for a few months, I can always switch over to the $10k option. For me, FSD would be easier to justify if it could be transferred to a newer car in the future.
 
FSD and Autopilot are, at best, fun toys. The main value they provide is allowing you to stop paying attention to the road. Now I don't have to brake or accelerate. Now I don't have to steer. Until I do have to do both at a moment's notice for no clear reason. I get false warnings of impending doom every other day when I'm driving home. It probably has to do with shadows. I see dancing vehicles on the display. The system doesn't at all work with me when I'm uncomfortable with the driving distance or lane position. I could go on but why bother? I have gotten unnecessary warnings in another vehicle, but only in obvious circumstances. I suppose it will be even worse for the radar-free vehicles. Coincidentally, I just read an article saying that more companies are using radar for their autonomous systems.
 
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mswlogo

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2018
8,103
7,596
MA, NH
$3k so Tesla can give you a driver score 🤣
Yeah, driver score leads to the new beta. I’m fine with that and I think it’s a genius plan. They need more folks using it and now they can cherry pick the safer ones that won’t mess up their stats. They don’t want the ones sleeping in their back seat which could set the whole program back.
 
Yeah, driver score leads to the new beta. I’m fine with that and I think it’s a genius plan. They need more folks using it and now they can cherry pick the safer ones that won’t mess up their stats. They don’t want the ones sleeping in their back seat which could set the whole program back.
Yea, because idiot YouTubers can't drive like gramma for a week to unlock FSD. Super safe.
 
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2101Guy

Active Member
Jan 6, 2020
3,631
5,764
USA
Free AP = Best value (by far)
EAP = A good value at $4k or less
FSD = Nowhere near worth $10k/doesnt come close to meeting the numerous claims by the CEO of the company/far too costly to still be L2


Also, as someone who had FSD for a year, on road trips, I essentially disabled the auto lane change feature. I ended up intervening to the point where I set it to prompt me first before it made the lane changes. It was either doing it too frequently or times when I simply wanted the car to stay put and cruise in the center lane.

For it to be worth $10k to me? I need it to do 100% of everything the CEO promised it would do over the years.
 
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