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FSD refund attempt: Tesla rep is lying

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SMAlset

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2017
9,067
9,786
SF Bay Area
It isn’t just the AP team that has issues to fix, though. There are issues with the UI, Bluetooth, streaming, the dang back up camera etc. They are getting behind the competition on the UI front. Every car I rent nowadays has better phone/music integration than Tesla does. Things like text integration, playlist support, apps (waze, Spotify, XM), etc. They probably should have outsourced that.

The software doesn’t have to be 100% bug free. But they need a much better % than they have today. I would gladly get fewer updates if they were QC’d a little better before realease.

FWIW if you check indeed.com you'll see that Tesla is looking to fill openings in those areas and more.
 

N5329K

Active Member
Aug 12, 2009
1,863
3,598
California
And still, what we have in our cars currently blows away anything else I am aware of. If it’s so darn easy to deliver the full promise FSD, spend less time complaining here and go ask Elon for a job. Or start you own Company and sell him all of your brilliance. In the meantime you are diminishing your enjoymentof what is presently one of the finest cars abailable at any price. Your call to do so, but wow, what a wasted moment.
You might have misunderstood. The bar in delivering on promises (which in all fairness were never really promises so much as aspirational tweets) is what’s low. The cars themselves have earned their strong following (among early adopters, anyway).
Robin
 

BestRadar

Member
Nov 14, 2013
698
558
NJ
It is only a matter of time until someone sues Tesla for that. They should've refunded everyone who wants it, it was discussed in lots of threads on this forum. I also gave up on trying and at least asked for Tesla for a RECEIPT on the purchase, which they also failed to generate for me for a week now.

I asked a few times over 2 years with no luck. If by the time I decide to sell this car and still don't have the FSD I will sue them just for the principle. I think they owe everyone who wants a refund a full refund and also interest on the time they have held our money with not giving us what we paid for,
 
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BestRadar

Member
Nov 14, 2013
698
558
NJ
Again this is a perfect example of a contract. You give them money in advance and in exchange they provide you a discount on the product. This is a perfectly legal and binding contract. If they then decide to take away said discount and change it in to something else like Early Access Program they have broken the contract and its no longer binding. I can accept the new contract or ask for the return of my money.

What discount? Many have paid less for FSD after the fact than original purchasers paid when they purchased the cars.
 

mongo

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2017
13,033
39,213
Michigan
That was the point I was making. The early adopters paid in advance at the promise of a discount for doing so. When Tesla removed that discount they broke that contract and I think the early adopters have a legal position.

While I understand the frustration, pay X now, or pay Y later does not mean they cannot later change the price to Z where Z<Y. Further, the contract/ offer made with one purchaser is completely seperate from any other contract.
If they then decide to take away said discount and change it in to something else like Early Access Program they have broken the contract and its no longer binding.

Is it not the case that early adopters of FSD now have (E)AP, FSD, and early access, thus being more than the original contract?
 

run-the-joules

Turgid Member
Aug 13, 2017
3,774
6,828
SF Bay
While I understand the frustration, pay X now, or pay Y later does not mean they cannot later change the price to Z where Z<Y. Further, the contract/ offer made with one purchaser is completely seperate from any other contract.


Is it not the case that early adopters of FSD now have (E)AP, FSD, and early access, thus being more than the original contract?

The early access promise is exactly like the FSD promise: we haven’t gotten a damned thing.
 
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mongo

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2017
13,033
39,213
Michigan
The early access promise is exactly like the FSD promise: we haven’t gotten a damned thing.
My issue was with "they took away the discount". The discount still happened (paying less at purchase than they would have later, though not as little as the recent offer) and early access was added on. So more than the original agreement (regardless of value of the items in the agreement).
 

run-the-joules

Turgid Member
Aug 13, 2017
3,774
6,828
SF Bay
My issue was with "they took away the discount". The discount still happened (paying less at purchase than they would have later, though not as little as the recent offer) and early access was added on. So more than the original agreement (regardless of value of the items in the agreement).

Depends if they actually give us early access or not. If they just start making stuff up and never deliver on it, it’s moot.
 

BestRadar

Member
Nov 14, 2013
698
558
NJ
The early access promise is exactly like the FSD promise: we haven’t gotten a damned thing.

Not to mention at this point the hardware in my 2016 is already out of date so how are they going to give us early access to anything? I paid $113k for my Model S which today can be purchased for $95k with the same features, newer hardware and much more miles.
 

Darscot

Member
May 27, 2018
320
326
BC
My issue was with "they took away the discount". The discount still happened (paying less at purchase than they would have later, though not as little as the recent offer) and early access was added on. So more than the original agreement (regardless of value of the items in the agreement).
As my earlier post in this thread I was specifically told by paying in advance I would be assured the best price. So I agreed to pay up front. They then turned around and lowered the price and they have yet to deliver the functionality. If they had delivered me a single feature based on that early payment then I would be satisfied. At the time that feature was released I got the best price. What have I received for paying in advance, nothing. That is why I feel I am justified in a refund. If and when the deliver something I’ll pay the current price. They have no justification for keeping my money.
 

mongo

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2017
13,033
39,213
Michigan
As my earlier post in this thread I was specifically told by paying in advance I would be assured the best price. So I agreed to pay up front. They then turned around and lowered the price and they have yet to deliver the functionality. If they had delivered me a single feature based on that early payment then I would be satisfied. At the time that feature was released I got the best price. What have I received for paying in advance, nothing. That is why I feel I am justified in a refund. If and when the deliver something I’ll pay the current price. They have no justification for keeping my money.
Ah, my apologies, I followed the quote chain up the thread, but didn't reread you earlier post.

In all cases I am aware of, the price at configuration time is less that the post configuration price (at that point in time). Although not the best price overall (based on future knowledge/ recent events), was it the best price known at the time?

When I bought the replacement it was right when they were increasing the pricing on FSD and they specifically told me the only way to insure the best price was to get FSD on the second car at configuration. Those are the exact words the representative used "purchasing at configuration will insure the best price, it will be much more expensive than on your first car to buy it later."
 

tomas

Out of warranty...
Oct 22, 2012
4,268
3,858
Chicago/Montecito
That was the point I was making. The early adopters paid in advance at the promise of a discount for doing so. When Tesla removed that discount they broke that contract and I think the early adopters have a legal position.
Riiighttt. You allege you got overcharged a penny on a candy bar. You can sue, but it will cost you more than what you’d recover if you won. And that’s IF. You could try to organize a class action suit, but class action lawyers will want 1) large class, and 2) significant material damages before even considering. They won’t bet on punitive damages. You might be able to find a lawyer attached to some candy bar shorts to file a nuisance/publicity suit. Regardless... talk of suing for your candy bar overcharge is a waste of time.
 

Darscot

Member
May 27, 2018
320
326
BC
Riiighttt. You allege you got overcharged a penny on a candy bar. You can sue, but it will cost you more than what you’d recover if you won. And that’s IF. You could try to organize a class action suit, but class action lawyers will want 1) large class, and 2) significant material damages before even considering. They won’t bet on punitive damages. You might be able to find a lawyer attached to some candy bar shorts to file a nuisance/publicity suit. Regardless... talk of suing for your candy bar overcharge is a waste of time.

I wouldn’t class action or hire a lawyer I looked at the fees to file in small claims and it’s about $200. It’s not that complicated a situation. I figure a few hours of research and I can put together an argument. The law is pretty simple on this thing kind of thing. I have done it before against an insurance company and won. I’m Canadian and we don’t really have the whole punitive thing like in the states and i have no interest in that. I’m really just trying to decide should I go the easy route and go for a $4000 refund. I kinda like the idea of going the more interesting case that they give me $1600 and I still get to keep FSD if they deliver it. Option two is more complex but is a lot more fun. I suspect Tesla will quickly just process the refund and take all the fun out of it. Companies are happy to fight greedy class action lawyers as it doesn’t look bad. They do not like to go against a working person, the David and Goliath is just a bad look all around.
 
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BestRadar

Member
Nov 14, 2013
698
558
NJ
I wouldn’t class action or hire a lawyer I looked at the fees to file in small claims and it’s about $200. It’s not that complicated a situation. I figure a few hours of research and I can put together an argument. The law is pretty simple on this thing kind of thing. I have done it before against an insurance company and won. I’m Canadian and we don’t really have the whole punitive thing like in the states and i have no interest in that. I’m really just trying to decide should I go the easy route and go for a $4000 refund. I kinda like the idea of going the more interesting case that they give me $1600 and I still get to keep FSD if they deliver it. Option two is more complex but is a lot more fun. I suspect Tesla will quickly just process the refund and take all the fun out of it. Companies are happy to fight greedy class action lawyers as it doesn’t look bad. They do not like to go against a working person, the David and Goliath is just a bad look all around.
I personally would want a Buy Back... The only reason I purchased the car was because of the Promised FSD functionality and not the new watered down version.
 
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OCR1

Active Member
Jan 28, 2018
3,759
4,111
Southern California
Did anyone really believe that a Tesla would be truly full self driving (as in take a nap and wake up when you get there) any time in the near future (like less than 5 years)? It always seemed so far fetched to me that I never really took it seriously.
 
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run-the-joules

Turgid Member
Aug 13, 2017
3,774
6,828
SF Bay
Did anyone really believe that a Tesla would be truly full self driving (as in take a nap and wake up when you get there) any time in the near future (like less than 5 years)? It always seemed so far fetched to me that I never really took it seriously.

It's hard for me to admit this, but my optimistic non-analytical side thought it was conceptually possible.
 

Mod3forMe

Member
Oct 30, 2018
339
336
Canada
Did anyone really believe that a Tesla would be truly full self driving (as in take a nap and wake up when you get there) any time in the near future (like less than 5 years)? It always seemed so far fetched to me that I never really took it seriously.

I agree. But Tesla can't defend themselves by saying "our promises are so ridiculous that we can't be held responsible for them."
 
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