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FSD rewrite will go out on Oct 20 to limited beta
- Thread starter diplomat33
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mikes_fsd
Banned
Spoke too soon... accoriding to Kim Paquette on twitter Beta 9 is just to get FSD beta folks the holiday update...
https://twitter.com/kimpaquette/status/1344300590684397569
So, need to wait for another update...
Which conflicts directly with Brandonee said he was told by Tesla in his video while he installed it. (That it was adding the current production changes and FSD fixes/improvements.)
mikes_fsd
Banned
Thanks, I guess, we'll just wait and see... (not like I can do anything else)...
Oh, right. Yeah, I don't see actual, non-geofenced, no-restrictions level 5 happening for another 10 years even in the best-case scenario. L5 encompasses *everything*, after all.
Been flying highly automated aircraft for over 40 years. I will never feel comfortable not monitoring my car, level 5 or not. It will never, ever be 100% foolproof. Computers screw up all the time, programming is done by humans who are fallible, machines break, unforeseen circumstances that arise while driving cannot all be accounted for. It may indeed bring more safety in general to the driving public, but there will still be accidents, hopefully much less than nowadays. But even if they reach 98% or 99% foolproof, I will be monitoring the car so as to not being an outlying statistic. Force of habit.
It's not a toy! Please treat it as life and death, because that's what it actually is. If you do beta test it you must be in absolute control all the time, constantly alert and not like in the YouTube videos where they take all kinds of insane risks. Remember those videos are for-profit and competing for clickbait.
I agree with Turnem.
I think EAP will get FSD beta in January. And wide public release at the end of Q1 or Q2 at the latest. Though they may disable some features in the public/wide release at first.
Well, it's a bit hazy, I mean there are places you wouldn't drive your car and wouldn't expect FSD to either, but yeah, basically it means all roads at least.
Even level 4 is a long, long way off for Tesla. Obviously Waymo is already there and a couple of others are just starting their driverless taxi services, but they are all working on the problem from the other direction - FSD first, not taking driver assistance level 2 features and trying to build them up.
Even if Tesla get their tech working the regulatory barriers will be high because they are trying to start out with them as level 2/3 driver aids. There isn't much legislative or regulatory effort on that front because it's seen as a bit of a dead end technologically and also because it is very difficult to enforce. Say a cop sees someone driving erratically or texting while driving, but they later claim their car was in level 3 mode so the manufacturer is to blame. Then it becomes an argument over what mode the car was in, if it was the wrong mode and the driver should have noticed or if the software shouldn't have allowed it etc.
The feeling seems to be to just wait for level 4/5 and legislate for that.
Entirely irrelevant statement to your following paragraph, just saying.
The point is L4 cars will never be 100% but they will be 100x-1000x greater reliability/safety than human driven cars. (They already are) And by allowing humans to monitor and take over them will decrease safety.
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if it goes the way of Smart Summon....it'll never be useable
It already is useable
It's interesting that passenger aircraft have been able to do almost everything - take off, fly and land, since the 1960s. Certainly auto-landing was perfected and thought to be safer than a human over 50 years ago.
Yet we still like pilots to do it manually. Many accidents are down to pilot error, but we still seem to prefer them to automation.
Personally I hate being a passenger in a car, I'd much rather be driving. It's not a trust issue, I just get car sick if I'm trying to look at my phone too much and driving gives me something to do.
Just because you are having fun doesn't mean you are not treating it as life and death.
What YouTube videos of FSD beta are people not staying constantly alert at all times?
Depends where you live, in Europe... Not so much.
But even in the US remember what was originally promised vs. what has actually been delivered. You were going to be able to press a button and have your car come meet you at the door to your home. In practice is only kinda works in open air public car parks that have been mapped by satellite and you have to visually monitor it the whole time, with a maximum range enforced.
The ones where they notice FSD is about to crash or do something stupid and leave it to the last possible second to see if it self corrects, for a start. One slight misjudgement and they caused an accident.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Not really. There ODD is rather narrow. They would be at Level 4 when they can operate in top 100 US metros, in conditions an avg human can (like rain or light snow).
Its like saying the elevator is level 4. Ofcourse it is - but with an extremely narrow ODD.
No, level 4 just means full self driving with no safety driver in a limited area, it doesn't put a lower limit on the size of the area.
Doesn't mean they are not there. It just means there ODD is extremely narrow, which it is.
However, there are currently 100s of cities in the US that would fit into Waymo's current ODD. And 5th gen will have wider ODD and there will be thousands of US cities that would fit into the ODD. So not that limiting.
ODD limitations is not the main factor stopping Waymo from scaling.
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L4 is defined as fully autonomous in a limited ODD, irrespective of the size of the ODD. There is nothing in the L4 definition that says how big the ODD has to be. The ODD can be tiny or big and still be L4. So Waymo does not need to operate in 100 metro areas to be L4. Waymo is still L4 even if the ODD is narrow. That is why, when talking about L3 and L4, you have to specify the ODD after the Level since the ODD is not included in the definition of the level itself.
For you personally, Waymo might have to be in 100 metro areas before you accept it as L4. But that is your personal standard. It is not the official definition of L4.
I would also point out that the overall ODD of Waymo is spread out wherever they have an autonomous vehicle. Waymo's robotaxis in Phoenix are L4 with an ODD of 100 sq mi in Phoenix, Waymo's test vehicles in Detroit are L4 with an ODD in the geofenced area in Detroit, Waymo's test vehicles in SF are also L4 with an ODD in the geofenced area in SF, etc... Each autonomous vehicle is L4 even with a narrow ODD.
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