FSD. This should be interesting!

[Dilly]

The party has started!

Tesla is now facing a class action lawsuit over 'misleading' claims about self-driving — Electrek

Tesla is now facing a class action lawsuit over “allegedly misleading the public regarding its Autopilot, Enhanced Autopilot, and Full Self-Driving Capability (‘FSD’) technology.”

apple.news

 

[Irata]

Well it was bound to happen wasn't it.

Albeit, I suspect the reason it's been described as an "investment" was preplanned as part of any defense. Not that I am suggesting it was a good plan.

Even if a refund is given to everyone, it was a good free loan for Tesla. Plus those who get a refund would need to purchase again at a higher price if they wanted it back at a later date.

 

[Artiste]

Tesla (Musk) have been making misleading claims about FSD for years. And it is a faulty product. I’d certainly accept a refund and there’s no way I’d waste my money on FSD again.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

I imagine lawyers are going to be the ones getting rich.

The new radar thats been spotted in the workshop manual seems to be another WTF moment, just as we've all been told radar is a waste of time and our cars are going to ignore it, they're introducing a new radar into the hardware stack for some future time. And people still think Tesla are being upfront about all this

 

[speedyranger74]

I imagine lawyers are going to be the ones getting rich.

The new radar thats been spotted in the workshop manual seems to be another WTF moment, just as we've all been told radar is a waste of time and our cars are going to ignore it, they're introducing a new radar into the hardware stack for some future time. And people still think Tesla are being upfront about all this

Which seem cannot be retrofitted

 

[CWT3LR]

Which seem cannot be retrofitted

Crucial point Speedy.

If they can't be retrofitted, and there is no way to get current FSD beyond a basic level 2 ADAS, they will have to refund 100,000+ who have paid for a system that is reaching the limits of its development. FSD is not even close to being what was promised. And Tesla's reputation for overpromising and massively under-delivering will be set in stone.

 

[speedyranger74]

Crucial point Speedy.

If they can't be retrofitted, and there is no way to get current FSD beyond a basic level 2 ADAS, they will have to refund 100,000+ who have paid for a system that is reaching the limits of its development. FSD is not even close to being what was promised. And Tesla's reputation for overpromising and massively under-delivering will be set in stone.

Yes, how @GGeorgeSymonds said, the lawyers can't wait for us.
Or maybe, Tesla, agree to put FSD with the account, not with the car.

 

[Dilly]

Yes, how @GGeorgeSymonds said, the lawyers can't wait for us.
Or maybe, Tesla, agree to put FSD with the account, not with the car.

Now that would appease some people

 

[WllXM]

Yes, how @GGeorgeSymonds said, the lawyers can't wait for us.
Or maybe, Tesla, agree to put FSD with the account, not with the car.

Still, I would go further.
We bought the car itself with the expectation that it was FSD capable (in hardware).
Offering to refund or port FSD to another vehicle isn't going to cut it.

A significant portion of the vehicle value relied on this assumption. That's what Tesla needs to compensate for if they admit their inability to offer FSD to current vehicles.

 

[2020M3SR]

Yes, how @GGeorgeSymonds said, the lawyers can't wait for us.
Or maybe, Tesla, agree to put FSD with the account, not with the car.

Tesla agree to put it with the account rather than car? They are being brought to court for charging (for many years now) a product thats not finished. I doubt a court would open the door for Tesla to just say to its customers, you'll get it when its ready - job done. People have waited way too long already, hence the court case so there is no way that the court will agree that the solution is to let them wait even longer, that just doesn't make any sense.

 

[CWT3LR]

A (perhaps stretched) analogy.

I ask a builder to do some work for me, agree the design, pay him a fee upfront, and then agree a date when I can expect to be able to use what he has built.

If he is 30 minutes late delivering what we agreed, a court would feel I was being unreasonable. But if I waited four years for him to make the build substantially useable? And even then, not even close to what he promised he would build? Court would likely see me as being more than reasonable and not just mandate a refund, but damages for the fact I could have used an alternative provider over the intervening period.

So I agree with @WIIXM, that perhaps what Tesla are more worried by is the prospect of not just refunds, but multiples more than that for breach of promise too.

 

[Billbrown1982]

Tesla agree to put it with the account rather than car? They are being brought to court for charging (for many years now) a product thats not finished. I doubt a court would open the door for Tesla to just say to its customers, you'll get it when its ready - job done. People have waited way too long already, hence the court case so there is no way that the court will agree that the solution is to let them wait even longer, that just doesn't make any sense.

If the court rules that Tesla has to give refunds to anybody that wants one, and Tesla give customers the option of getting a refund, or having the purchase linked to their account, then it would satisfy the court and also any customers that are happy to stay along for the ride.

 

[2020M3SR]

If the court rules that Tesla has to give refunds to anybody that wants one, and Tesla give customers the option of getting a refund, or having the purchase linked to their account, then it would satisfy the court and also any customers that are happy to stay along for the ride.

Yes, I think you're right. Gives customers that bought it at a lower price the option to hang onto it I suppose, which some might like to do.

 

[speedyranger74]

Still, I would go further.
We bought the car itself with the expectation that it was FSD capable (in hardware).
Offering to refund or port FSD to another vehicle isn't going to cut it.

A significant portion of the vehicle value relied on this assumption. That's what Tesla needs to compensate for if they admit their inability to offer FSD to current vehicles.

Taken the car on March 2020 and I believed Elon when tell for the finished 2020 will be 1M robotaxi
I said: shut up and take my money...

 

[gangzoom]

The party has started!

Tesla is now facing a class action lawsuit over 'misleading' claims about self-driving — Electrek

Tesla is now facing a class action lawsuit over “allegedly misleading the public regarding its Autopilot, Enhanced Autopilot, and Full Self-Driving Capability (‘FSD’) technology.”

apple.news

That's nothing new. If you search for it a US judge ruled AGAINST Tesla and FSD in a plain tiff suit a while back. The 'winners' were awarded $500 compensation after legal fees I seem to remember. Am not certain but I persume all those that took part than 'lost' any AP functionality as Tesla paid the owners direct I think??

Am sure some can find the thread?

 

[Irata]

That's nothing new. If you search for it a US judge ruled AGAINST Tesla and FSD in a plain tiff suit a while back. The 'winners' were awarded $500 compensation after legal fees I seem to remember. Am not certain but I persume all those that took part than 'lost' any AP functionality as Tesla paid the owners direct I think??

Am sure some can find the thread?

When searching there are also reports of the opposite, in one case with the judge concluding "they should have read the small print".

Historically several low profile cases and even with a small compensation is absolutely nothing for Tesla to worry about. That is just part and part of any USA business.

A real test for Tesla is still yet to come. Whether this latest case is that, no idea yet.

 

[GlynG]

I'm clearly alone. I have FSD and quite happy with it as an aid, I never believe any businesses claim about its products - lies is an interchangeable word with marketing. Toothpaste does work as they claim, nor washing powder and indeed almost everything created has its foibles and issues - You have to accept they sort of work under ideal conditions - you know like range of a BEV or how many MPG a car will do.

If a resolution is ever achieved and I was offered a refund I'm sure I would prefer whatever it takes to be added to my car hardware and software wise to make it fully FSD - failing that then I would consider a partial refund - maybe 50% and keep FSD at whatever its current functional level is, however, I don't believe the class action will succeed and absolutely no chance for the UK as our current restrictive laws has crippled the FSD function in comparison to the USA - so not a Tesla problem at the moment - and should that moment ever come the model 3 will be an antiquated old car - sold on many times and any value for the loss of FSD and compensation will probably be enough to cover a day's energy consumption at home.

On quiet motorways at night my FSD works superbly - just doesn't care too much for others being on the road or off the motorways - but It'll do.

 

[Zilla91]

FSD looks about as much use as a chocolate teapot.

 

[Overworked]

...

On quiet motorways at night my FSD works superbly - just doesn't care too much for others being on the road or off the motorways - but It'll do.

With just basic AP I think my M3 works very well at motorways, and am curious what extra EAP or even FSD can do, other than lane changes?

 

[meavydev]

FSD has route navigation, although you have to acknowledge the junctions now and Bristol M4 / M5 junctions are never handled well, so it's just lane changes, as long as it's not too dark when the car thinks that the B pillars are obscured