General Discussion: 2018 Investor Roundtable

[Todd Burch]

https://www.usnews.com/news/us/arti...ng-delayed-quiet-cars-rule-extending-deadline

The long-delayed rules, which were first demanded by Congress in 2010, will require automakers like Tesla Inc, Nissan Motor Co and General Motors Co to add sounds to vehicles when they are moving at speeds of up to 18.6 miles per hour (30 km per hour) to help prevent injuries among pedestrians, cyclists and the blind.

The regulation requires the sounds be added to all "quiet" vehicles by September 2020 - a year behind the schedule announced by the administration of former President Barack Obama in November 2016. Automakers must have the sounds in 50 percent of vehicles by September 2019.


The agency estimates the odds of a hybrid vehicle being involved in a pedestrian crash are 19 percent higher than with a traditional gasoline-powered vehicle. About 125,000 pedestrians and cyclists are injured annually on roads in the United States

Ugh. I'm still waiting to hear of the first incident of this with a Tesla...haven't heard of it happening yet.

 

[Curt Renz]

https://www.usnews.com/news/us/arti...ng-delayed-quiet-cars-rule-extending-deadline

The long-delayed rules, which were first demanded by Congress in 2010, will require automakers like Tesla Inc, Nissan Motor Co and General Motors Co to add sounds to vehicles when they are moving at speeds of up to 18.6 miles per hour (30 km per hour) to help prevent injuries among pedestrians, cyclists and the blind.

The regulation requires the sounds be added to all "quiet" vehicles by September 2020 - a year behind the schedule announced by the administration of former President Barack Obama in November 2016. Automakers must have the sounds in 50 percent of vehicles by September 2019.


The agency estimates the odds of a hybrid vehicle being involved in a pedestrian crash are 19 percent higher than with a traditional gasoline-powered vehicle. About 125,000 pedestrians and cyclists are injured annually on roads in the United States

Does this mean that existing electric vehicles must eventually comply?

Does this mean that electric cars produced later this year do not need to ever comply?

Do Tesla cars already have the hardware for this and just need software to comply?

 

[mongo]

Does this mean that existing electric vehicles must eventually comply?

Does this mean that electric cars produced later this year do not need to ever comply?

Based on standard grandfathering:
No.
Yes.

 

[avoigt]

Ugh. I'm still waiting to hear of the first incident of this with a Tesla...haven't heard of it happening yet.

Whoever initiated this has obviously no experience with EVs nor with safety measures in traffic. Its just not true that they don't make any sound.

On top its much easier to recognize vehicles if all cars on the road have a reduced noise level and thats what will happen over time anyway.

Do they ask bicycles to install a noice making appliance as well to avoid accidents that are often more severe ?
Why don't we do something with pedestrians and install a sound box for steps to reduce the death toll ?
Maybe we should make sure vehicles don't have any noice reduction measures installed so you have the same noice level like in a Beetle from the 70s to make sure you hear the other cars?

Here in Europe is a no-brainer that you don't need a sound with EVs and although the ICE lobby is very strong that discussion died quickly.

 

[Todd Burch]

Whoever initiated this has obviously no experience with EVs nor with safety measures in traffic. Its just not true that they don't make any sound.

On top its much easier to recognize vehicles if all cars on the road have a reduced noise level and thats what will happen over time anyway.

Do they ask bicycles to install a noice making appliance as well to avoid accidents that are often more severe ?
Why don't we do something with pedestrians and install a sound box for steps to reduce the death toll ?
Maybe we should make sure vehicles don't have any noice reduction measures installed so you have the same noice level like in a Beetle from the 70s to make sure you hear the other cars?

Here in Europe is a no-brainer that you don't need a sound with EVs and although the ICE lobby is very strong that discussion died quickly.

Yep. This is undoubtedly a boneheaded move by the US Congress...

 

[Reciprocity]

Ugh. I'm still waiting to hear of the first incident of this with a Tesla...haven't heard of it happening yet.

Sadly, its probably required more now then ever before with peoples faces in their phones and not paying attention to whats going on as the walk out into traffic. I hate it, but I get it. At my office, I have to creep past the side entrance because there is a big wall and no could see me until I was on top of them. And of course they cannot hear me. Everyone is walking out with their heads in their phones, probably checking on traffic because the nav in their cars sucks so bad.

 

[hobbes]

Which Car Brands Make the Best Vehicles?
View attachment 283054

Summary: Tesla is

• 8th of 34 brands
• Best US brand
  
• Ties in the highest owner satisfaction grade with Genesis, Porsche and Chrysler
• Ties in road test score with Porsche and BMW (88), only Genesis is better at 89
• Only average reliability - but that is a tie with Porsche, Mercedes, Mazda to name a few

 

[RobStark]

Ugh. I'm still waiting to hear of the first incident of this with a Tesla...haven't heard of it happening yet.

It would only be reported if a Tesla driver killed or paralyzed a pedestrian or cyclist.

So it seems that hasn't happened yet.

This noise maker is for speeds upto 18.6 mph.

Accidents up to 18.6 mph,the accidents that would be prevented, probably would not kill or paralyze someone.

Not a pleasant experience for sure but probably not death or paralysis.

 

[Zaxxon]

This was somewhat expected after last year's announcement that all 2019+ vehicles will be at least somewhat electrified, but it's still nice to see Volvo confirming that: Volvo Won't Develop a New Generation of Gas Engines

Is this the first 'large' (where 'large' equals 'non-niche') traditional automaker to make such an announcement?

 

[DurandalAI]

If that was the case, they wouldn't have reiterated on both the call and the 8k that they intended to increase production. They would have said, we are going to wait to raise production until the new hardware gets here. Instead they said the exact opposite.

Normally I agree with you, and normally I take Tesla at their word. Shall I say, that they intend on still meeting those targets at those dates but not early? As I said, I have nothing to back it up, but just a hunch. So far it doesn’t look like the ramp has accelerated that much yet, much to my own dismay. But we shall see in a month or so. I’m expecting higher numbers for February, but not dramatically so.

 

[RobStark]

Summary: Tesla is

• 8th of 34 brands
• Best US brand
  
• Ties in the highest owner satisfaction grade with Genesis, Porsche and Chrysler
• Ties in road test score with Porsche and BMW (88), only Genesis is better at 89
• Only average reliability - but that is a tie with Porsche, Mercedes, Mazda to name a few

I understand people being very satisfied with an almost fully loaded Genesis for less money than base BMW or Audi but superior road scores for Genesis is baffling.

I have test driven both just for kicks and found them lacking on the road.

 

[EinSV]

Summary: Tesla is

• 8th of 34 brands
• Best US brand
  
• Ties in the highest owner satisfaction grade with Genesis, Porsche and Chrysler
• Ties in road test score with Porsche and BMW (88), only Genesis is better at 89
• Only average reliability - but that is a tie with Porsche, Mercedes, Mazda to name a few

Also, the Model S was CR’s number 1 rated vehicle overall:

“According to the Brand Report Card, the Model S scored higher than any other car in the magazine’s test, with a 4/5 predicted reliability score, a perfect 5/5 for predicted owner satisfaction, and a perfect 100 rating on the road test. The Model X scored a perfect 5/5 for predicted owner satisfaction and a decent 77 rating on the road test, but the luxury electric SUV’s average scores were pulled down by its low 1/5 predicted reliability score.”​

Tesla makes Consumer Reports' Top 10 Car Brands as lone US carmaker

 

[mongo]

Whoever initiated this has obviously no experience with EVs nor with safety measures in traffic. Its just not true that they don't make any sound.

Disagree. I drove a Prius briefly 15 years ago to see what speed it would go without the ICE kicking in (through a parking lot). You could easily take out a distracted pedestrian if there were any ambient noise around (such as a running ICE). At that time, I thought they would be legislated soon. Adding a small noise generator seems a minor impact.

 

[jhm]

I would want my Tesla to play a cool sound like the shark theme from Jaws, "Electric Avenue" or the ping sound from Stat Trek.

 

[Reciprocity]

I would want my Tesla to play a cool sound like the shark theme from Jaws, "Electric Avenue" or the ping sound from Stat Trek.

I want mine to play the cylon sound and when you floor it, it should say.. "by your command"

Ohh, and I want the red light going back and forth in the slit in the nose of the car. But only at low speed so people can see it.

 

[hobbes]

Fiiiinally: Solar Panels on top of GF:
Building Tesla - Gigafactory 1

@FredLambert - maybe you can get confirmation from Tesla?

(via reddit)

 

[RobStark]

 

[Reciprocity]

Lame.. cylons are way cooler.

 

[Dennisj00]

A follow-up to the article I posted back in 2017 about Powerpack installations on Ocracoke Island in NC

https://www.carolinacountry.com/iss...n-the-lines/co-op-tech-the-agile-fractal-grid

There are thousands of situations like this just in the US-Tesla has a great advantage.

 

[SteveG3]

Hopefully never directly on topic here (or with SpaceX for that matter), but, interesting to learn about. Pretty brief article.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...seriously-at-sabotage/?utm_term=.9d9cd331c472

“We literally thought someone had shot the rocket,” Musk said in an interview last summer at SpaceX’s headquarters in Hawthorne, Calif. “We found things that looked like bullet holes, and we calculated that someone with a high-powered rifle, if they had shot the rocket in the right location, the exact same thing would have happened.”