General Discussion: 2018 Investor Roundtable

[bambam4171]

If the base LR can perform like this, the Model 3 P should be a beast on the track. Another reason for Tesla to keep BMW, Audi, Mercedes and Porsche execs up at night.

To be honest, I doubt it. I think the reason why the Model 3 single motor non P did so well on the track is because it does not draw a lot of energy out of the pack. The P version however will draw much more power and thus likely will still be limited.

 

[bambam4171]

Yes we do. Environmental NGOs did test them inside out and Diesel cars produced in Germany are compliant with German regulations.

You omit the NOX discussion. AFAIK even the newest Diesels still omit high levels of NOX. And IIRC the NOX levels where the basis of the court ruling that a ban on ALL Diesel (even Euro 6) was possible.

 

[avoigt]

You omit the NOX discussion. AFAIK even the newest Diesels still omit high levels of NOX. And IIRC the NOX levels where the basis of the court ruling that a ban on ALL Diesel (even Euro 6) was possible.

I actually talk about the NOX emissions and don't omit them .... but just for Germany. Here the cars at that class (6) are compliant as far as you can trust dependent and independent organizations.

Not sure about Switzerland and the US in respect of compliance.

 

[RobStark]

I Pace $69.5k base price plus $1k destination fee for US is very good.

About $76k for an I Pace comprable equipped to a base Model S.

Part of the reason we get cheaper car prices in the US vs EU is the 2.5% tariff vs 10% tariff makes the American market more competitive.

 

[EinSV]

To be honest, I doubt it. I think the reason why the Model 3 single motor non P did so well on the track is because it does not draw a lot of energy out of the pack. The P version however will draw much more power and thus likely will still be limited.

The Model 3 with an amateur driver turned 9 laps at Laguna Seca with essentially no degradation from the battery or motor. This is roughly equivalent to more than 1.5 laps at Nurbringring -- 9 x 2.238 miles = 20.14 miles v. 1.5 x 12.9 miles = 19.35 miles.

I don't pretend to be an expert but this suggests to me that there is quite a bit more room to run for a P Model 3 (or even LR Model 3) fast lap at Nurbringring and certainly at Laguna Seca. Hopefully we will find out within the next year or so.

 

[mongo]

To be honest, I doubt it. I think the reason why the Model 3 single motor non P did so well on the track is because it does not draw a lot of energy out of the pack. The P version however will draw much more power and thus likely will still be limited.

I respectfully disagree regarding pack thermal limit. Consider that the 3 can supercharge at 117+ kW (157 HP) for long time periods, discharge ability will be even higher. It also appears to have much larger radiator/ condenser for cooling. Finally, consider pack thermal mass vs effective series resistance.
Motors generate heat in the stator which is easier to cool vs the rotor in the S/X. Also has oil cooling loop for the motor.

 

[gene]

We so often forget the Tesla Energy contribution. Here's a feel good article about battery storage demand for 2018: U.S. energy storage begins to take off

I'm making my contribution with yet an additional 4 KW added to my PV system plus two Powerwalls.

 

[EinSV]

We so often forget the Tesla Energy contribution. Here's a feel good article about battery storage demand for 2018: U.S. energy storage begins to take off

Thanks @gene. More in the same vein here — headline has the punch line: U.S. energy storage market to nearly triple this year -report

March 6 (Reuters) - U.S. deployments of energy storage systems will nearly triple this year thanks to sharply lower costs and state policies that support the case for installing batteries in homes, businesses and along the power grid.​

 

[hobbes]

The Model 3 with an amateur driver turned 9 laps at Laguna Seca with essentially no degradation from the battery or motor. This is roughly equivalent to more than 1.5 laps at Nurbringring -- 9 x 2.238 miles = 20.14 miles v. 1.5 x 12.9 miles = 19.35 miles.

Distance wise maybe, but the altitude profile looks quite different (if you are talking about the Nurburgring Nordschleife). There you have downhills where you can reach 60mph on a racing bike (bicycle, not motor bike) - and equivalent uphills, so the strain on the drive train should be higher (max power for longer periods of time).

 

[AudubonB]

This just in on Bloomberg:

Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin said the Trump administration isn’t trying to provoke a global trade fight with the steel and aluminum tariffs announced last week.

“We are not looking to get into trade wars,” Mnuchin said Tuesday during a congressional committee hearing when asked about the tariffs.

That relieves a lot of uncertainty for me: I see their point. Succinctly, it's "We can impose tariffs but you cannot respond." I think that's brilliant!

 

[kbM3]

Distance wise maybe, but the altitude profile looks quite different (if you are talking about the Nurburgring Nordschleife). There you have downhills where you can reach 60mph on a racing bike (bicycle, not motor bike) - and equivalent uphills, so the strain on the drive train should be higher (max power for longer periods of time).

It would seem to me that max stress would be when the accelerator is floored. It shouldn’t matter whether you’re going uphill or on a straight. It should be the same motor output uphill. It’s just less acceleration.

Unless I’m missing something?

 

[mongo]

It would seem to me that max stress would be when the accelerator is floored. It shouldn’t matter whether you’re going uphill or on a straight. It should be the same motor output uphill. It’s just less acceleration.

Unless I’m missing something?

You are correct, I think they are referring to longer stretches where one can accelerate, along with uphill parts where more energy is used to maintain speed.

 

[RobStark]

That relieves a lot of uncertainty for me: I see their point. Succinctly, it's "We can impose tariffs but you cannot respond." I think that's brilliant!

Or you can impose higher tariffs and more non tariff trade barriers on American goods and services but we can never respond.

 

[SteveG3]

Porsche unveils its insanely fast Tesla Model X rival

I like the back. Tesla should really change its tail lights

I like the design too, particularly the back vs. the Model 3... as a consumer, I hope Tesla offers a similar variation of the Model 3 platform in the next few years.

 

[Waiting4M3]

And so it begins:

Charged EVs | Daimler expects shift to EVs to cut into profit growth this year

 

[Reciprocity]

This just in on Bloomberg:

Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin said the Trump administration isn’t trying to provoke a global trade fight with the steel and aluminum tariffs announced last week.

“We are not looking to get into trade wars,” Mnuchin said Tuesday during a congressional committee hearing when asked about the tariffs.

That relieves a lot of uncertainty for me: I see their point. Succinctly, it's "We can impose tariffs but you cannot respond." I think that's brilliant!

I think the idea is that they won't retaliate because it would plunge the world into the next great depression. But instead, they would come to the table and offer fair trade and get rid of tariffs against America in exchange for America doing the same. This is only possible because Trump is clearly crazy enough to do it. So it's really the obligation if the rest of the world to be sane for their own citizens sake. This could have all been avoided by those foreign leaders, but they refuse to right what is clearly wrong. And don't get it twisted, if the US catches a cold, the rest of world dies from flu.

No one wants tariffs, only fair trade. I prefer the good old reciprocal tax. You tax our goods, we tax yours. If you don't, then we won't.

Mark my words, there will not be a trade war. There will be a lot of bluster and chest pumping, and Trump will ratchet it up every time until they realize he is just crazy enough to do it.

Gary Cohen is out and that should be a clear signal that Trump is not playing around. If Trump was going to change his mind, Gary would have stayed but he clearly couldn't sway Trump.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like this tactic and I think it's a mistake but I get why Trump is doing it and I'm reminded of the time he told North Korea that his bombs where bigger and they worked and the fire and furry comments. All the sudden North Korea wants to sit down and talk about denuclearization. Kim Jung un knows that Trump is a crazy mofo. One sadistic lunatic to another.

So if there is a trade war, and I'm wrong, don't buy gold. Buy bullets. I wish had gotten that powerwall to pair with my solar.

 

[AZRI11]

I think the idea is that they won't retaliate because it would plunge the world into the next great depression. But instead, they would come to the table and offer fair trade and get rid of tariffs against America in exchange for America doing the same. This is only possible because Trump is clearly crazy enough to do it. So it's really the obligation if the rest of the world to be sane for their own citizens sake. This could have all been avoided by those foreign leaders, but they refuse to right what is clearly wrong. And don't get it twisted, if the US catches a cold, the rest of world dies from flu.

No one wants tariffs, only fair trade. I prefer the good old reciprocal tax. You tax our goods, we tax yours. If you don't, then we won't.

Mark my words, there will not be a trade war. There will be a lot of bluster and chest pumping, and Trump will ratchet it up every time until they realize he is just crazy enough to do it.

Gary Cohen is out and that should be a clear signal that Trump is not playing around. If Trump was going to change his mind, Gary would have stayed but he clearly couldn't sway Trump.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like this tactic and I think it's a mistake but I get why Trump is doing it and I'm reminded of the time he told North Korea that his bombs where bigger and they worked and the fire and furry comments. All the sudden North Korea wants to sit down and talk about denuclearization. Kim Jung un knows that Trump is a crazy mofo. One sadistic lunatic to another.

So if there is a trade war, and I'm wrong, don't buy gold. Buy bullets. I wish had gotten that powerwall to pair with my solar.

Trump is for Trump. He doesn't care about anything or anyone else. Black Swan is upon us, good luck everyone.

 

[MikeC]

I think the idea is that they won't retaliate because it would plunge the world into the next great depression. But instead, they would come to the table and offer fair trade and get rid of tariffs against America in exchange for America doing the same. This is only possible because Trump is clearly crazy enough to do it. So it's really the obligation if the rest of the world to be sane for their own citizens sake. This could have all been avoided by those foreign leaders, but they refuse to right what is clearly wrong. And don't get it twisted, if the US catches a cold, the rest of world dies from flu.

No one wants tariffs, only fair trade. I prefer the good old reciprocal tax. You tax our goods, we tax yours. If you don't, then we won't.

Mark my words, there will not be a trade war. There will be a lot of bluster and chest pumping, and Trump will ratchet it up every time until they realize he is just crazy enough to do it.

Gary Cohen is out and that should be a clear signal that Trump is not playing around. If Trump was going to change his mind, Gary would have stayed but he clearly couldn't sway Trump.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like this tactic and I think it's a mistake but I get why Trump is doing it and I'm reminded of the time he told North Korea that his bombs where bigger and they worked and the fire and furry comments. All the sudden North Korea wants to sit down and talk about denuclearization. Kim Jung un knows that Trump is a crazy mofo. One sadistic lunatic to another.

So if there is a trade war, and I'm wrong, don't buy gold. Buy bullets. I wish had gotten that powerwall to pair with my solar.

If only there existed some way to come up with a formal trade agreement that multiple countries could negotiate and mutually agree to in the interest of shared prosperity.

Trump withdrawing from the Trans-Pacific Partnership

 

[Jayjs20]

If only there existed some way to come up with a formal trade agreement that multiple countries could negotiate and mutually agree to in the interest of shared prosperity.

Trump withdrawing from the Trans-Pacific Partnership

I'm not a fan of the part that allows a country's national sovereignty, ours included, to be overridden by a secret court.

 

[RobStark]

I'm not a fan of the part that allows a country's national sovereignty, ours included, to be overridden by a secret court.

Then how do you adjucate disputes on what is and what is not an export subsidy, what is and what is not a unfair non-tariff trade barrier etc ?

BTW These arbritration panels are not secret star chambers.