General Discussion: 2018 Investor Roundtable

[Drax7]

Very interesting 5 minute YouTube video by In Depth discussing reasons why Tesla cannot build Superchargers in Germany, and why perspective Tesla buyers in Germany cannot access the 60,000,000 Euro EV fund. This video link was previously posted over on Reddit. Spoiler alert........In Depth suspects BMW, VW, Daimler, Bosch, etc............ It is worth the few minutes to watch it, and for anyone on the board from Germany, the video hosts offer to help publicize any petition efforts to help overturn these rulings:

It’s time we started establishing economic deterrence,
Countries that subvert us economically should be treated in kind.

Mod: there is this message and two replies. I'll leave them here for the moment but will banish all of them to the politics thread if there is any more discussion. --ggr

 

[Lessmog]

It’s time we started establishing economic deterrence,
Countries that subvert us economically should be treated in kind.

No. Don't go there. Enough of economic warfare already. US has cut itself off from Asia-Pacific and is underway to do the same with the rest of Americas. Why add Atlantic as yet another moat? Y'all be just sittin' there countin' yer soy beans, but before that I'm outta TSLA and Tesla too. So long and thanks for all the fish, as the saying goes.

Just don't.

 

[Gerardf]

IIRC, Roadster I started out with a 2-speed gearbox to handle the whole speed range. But the makers of gearboxes could not make one that worked without grinding itself up, and anyway Tesla engineered around the need electronically, so they settled for a simple reduction gear.
Well, maybe VAG has access to better knowhow ...

One of my customers is developing two-speed gearboxes for EV's.

products | Punchpowertrain
http://www.evs28.org/event_file/event_file/1/pfile/EVS28_Saphir_Faid_1.pdf

I very much doubt it will be strong enough to handle the power of the new roadster
Even the 'Heavy Duty' one mentions 274 kW.

Edit:
Some other interesting slides from them ("This time EV's are to stay", 48V, Autonomous driving etc")
http://www.verotech.be/index.php/page/getFileUID/uid/fc2a7d1ee031d180479bd94308160e4d/cr_usedb/25

 

[Yggdrasill]

No. Don't go there. Enough of economic warfare already. US has cut itself off from Asia-Pacific and is underway to do the same with the rest of Americas. Why add Atlantic as yet another moat? Y'all be just sittin' there countin' yer soy beans, but before that I'm outta TSLA and Tesla too. So long and thanks for all the fish, as the saying goes.

Just don't.

Agree. But I would also say that Germany shouldn't be doing what they are doing. They should support a level playing field for all car makers, foreign and domestic.

 

[scaesare]

Interesting new interview with Martin Eberhard, especially this quote considering the recent discussion of battery pricing:



Ex-Tesla CEO's focus: Battery integration

Interesting... between articles like this and Jeff Dahn's body language during his verbal non-response to the questions about battery costs and the $100 level, I suspect Tesla is a lot farther down that curve than many might realize...

 

[Reciprocity]

One of my customers is developing two-speed gearboxes for EV's.

products | Punchpowertrain
http://www.evs28.org/event_file/event_file/1/pfile/EVS28_Saphir_Faid_1.pdf

I very much doubt it will be strong enough to handle the power of the new roadster
Even the 'Heavy Duty' one mentions 274 kW.

Edit:
Some other interesting slides from them ("This time EV's are to stay", 48V, Autonomous driving etc")
http://www.verotech.be/index.php/page/getFileUID/uid/fc2a7d1ee031d180479bd94308160e4d/cr_usedb/25

Given a dual motor setup, could one motor be geared for high speed cruising, say the front wheels. I dont know the difference in P100D, but I know the front motor is smaller.

Edit: Fixed my dual vs duel before Rob got a hold of it.

 

[HG Wells]

Yes the dual motors duel it out by having different efficiencies at different speeds.

 

[Reciprocity]

Yes the dual motors duel it out by having different efficiencies at different speeds.

Yes very funny with the duel of the duals, but that is not what I meant. What I meant was to put the gear box only on the front motor which is only 165kW, give or take. It would essentially only switch gearing at higher speeds.

 

[HG Wells]

Yes very funny with the duel of the duals, but that is not what I meant. What I meant was to put the gear box only on the front motor which is only 165kW, give or take. It would essentially only switch gearing at higher speeds.

Would be an interesting math problem.
Don't know enough to calculate it but I'm sure they have looked at it.

With two motors you could take the load off one motor, switch gears then re engage.

By doing this you would avoid the problem they had with a single motor and a gear box. IE the motor had so much tork it destroyed the gear box.

 

[goinfraftw]

Found this on Twitter.

 

[Gerardf]

Will be interesting to see updates of these graphs the next to years.

 

[Waiting4M3]

IIRC, Roadster I started out with a 2-speed gearbox to handle the whole speed range. But the makers of gearboxes could not make one that worked without grinding itself up, and anyway Tesla engineered around the need electronically, so they settled for a simple reduction gear.

Well, maybe VAG has access to better knowhow ...

or they are that far behind...

 

[elasalle]

Tesla Powers Up New York Gigafactory Solar Roof Assembly Line

Tesla Inc. has kicked off production of its long-awaited electricity-producing shingles that Elon Musk says will transform the rooftop solar industry.


Manufacturing of the textured-glass tiles began last month at Tesla’s Gigafactory 2 in Buffalo, New York, according to an emailed statement from the Palo Alto, California-based company on Tuesday

.. looking for reasons SP shot up yesterday, this might be it ...

 

[kbM3]

Interesting new interview with Martin Eberhard, especially this quote considering the recent discussion of battery pricing:



Ex-Tesla CEO's focus: Battery integration

I dislike him stating “when EVs achieve price parity”. Tesla already does this. He should have added the qualifier; for non-luxury vehicles.

I am really starting to like this Alex Roy guy:

How The Tesla Model 3 Got #MotorTrended and Lost Car of the Year

I agree with the conclusion, but are used some torturous logic to get there. Interpreting intended function as maximizing sales is pretty funny.

 

[aubreymcfato]

Tesla Powers Up New York Gigafactory Solar Roof Assembly Line

Tesla Inc. has kicked off production of its long-awaited electricity-producing shingles that Elon Musk says will transform the rooftop solar industry.


Manufacturing of the textured-glass tiles began last month at Tesla’s Gigafactory 2 in Buffalo, New York, according to an emailed statement from the Palo Alto, California-based company on Tuesday

This is great news. The silence was deafening from GF2. It's more than 6 months late, and they need tonnes of solar cells for everything (superchargers, GF1, etc.).

 

[hobbes]

First test drive from an Journalist in the Porsche Mission E

Some Details:

- Price: 75 - 90 k€
- Charging: 3 Power classes: 300 kW / 402 PS, 400 kW / 536 PS and 500 kW / 670 PS
...

These numbers have nothing to do with charging. That´s just engine power output.

 

[adiggs]

Interesting... between articles like this and Jeff Dahn's body language during his verbal non-response to the questions about battery costs and the $100 level, I suspect Tesla is a lot farther down that curve than many might realize...

This response from that article reads to me like he just said that $115/kwh is the HIGH side of battery pack cost TODAY.

Today you can buy batteries for $100 a kilowatt hour; that was the pipe dream of the most enthusiastic EV proponent 10 years ago. We nearly tripled that on the Tesla Roadster — that's a huge deal.

At Inevit, our business was the "rest of system" cost — how do you make the car more cost effective once you've got the cells. It's no longer how much cells cost but how much does that cost me to bundle all that up into a battery system and put it into a car. On the high end, it's probably equal to the cell cost. At the low end, it's about 15 percent above the cell cost, approximately.

Uhm - wow.

 

[sub]

Good point. Hmm... What do you think will be the LR/SR split for Model 3.

Not a clue. The other apparent change with Tesla is the smaller performance differences between battery sizes than previous. X75D basically same as X100D for example. So, bigger battery is much more of a nice to have than a necessity. I however was planning to get a fully Spec'd LR model 3 before getting our X.

 

[Starno]

When do you think the Model Y reveal event be ? End of march ?
What about Model S/X new models ?

 

[powertoold]

I don't think Tesla will reveal the Y soon. That would likely detract people from buying the 3. The Y will likely be a very very cool car.

There's no reason for them to announce the Y until the backlog for the 3 is resolved.