The battery pack revisions are essentially irrelevant. On the track it is the motor that overheats. (Whis shouldn't be a problem for the Model 3.)
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
- Status
The battery pack revisions are essentially irrelevant. On the track it is the motor that overheats. (Whis shouldn't be a problem for the Model 3.)
bambam4171
Member
Agree and hateLook on the positive side. After a couple iterations of lowering the mileage and exhaust standards, there will be a whole lot of old VW clean diesels that can be resold and driven around. Think of it as the full employment act for asthma doctors, lung cancer specialists, used car salesmen. Making America Great Again...
bambam4171
Member
Hey guys, how about us here all following that asshole and comment on every tweet he does with facts?
RobStark
Well-Known Member
Tesla has also made improvements to the motors over the last 4 years.
Tesla upgrades its electric motor on the road to have powertrains lasting 1 million miles
Holy Shnikes Batman
GM May Also Exit the American Car Market, Morgan Stanley Says
Can’t wait for the shorties to claim that the declining sedan market is evidence that the Model3 is a complete failure
GM May Also Exit the American Car Market, Morgan Stanley Says
Can’t wait for the shorties to claim that the declining sedan market is evidence that the Model3 is a complete failure
bambam4171
Member
Actually, if you listen to the call its very bullish for Tesla, he says the ICE car marked is dead in the US so they concentrate on ICE Pickups and electric cars.
Fair enough on the aerodynamics. As for price point, will be interesting to see how many get a base 3. Would I take a CUV with coils or a sedan on air suspension for same price?
Good point on order book. Just saying though, once model Y comes, model 3 sales will tank. Where I believe if Y came first, sales would be stable.
Rational choices. Like an X with gull wing doors? Optimization is great, however a lot of people out there wear clothes for style over practicality. The 200 mile limit picked seemed arbitrary. Why 200? Why not 150? 180? As you say affordability is inversely proportional to battery size.
Agree. Previous to owning a Kia Soul EV, I would have never thought of not getting the largest possible battery. However, with only 185 km of range, we never come close to running out on daily driving. We are fortunate in we have another vehicle to road trip in. How many families out there road tripping in sedans these days? Even two person households are buying cuv’s. The long range battery while relevant to some, could be an over estimation of importance, especially in 2 vehicle households. As for affordable and price, the top of the line soul EV is 36k..,with cooled seats.
Good points on manufacturing and supply chain. I love cars, yet we own a SUV for practicality. With that said though The performance SUV segment is massive and growing, as people want sporty and practical. I would also argue it’s hard to have tail lights like the 3, or the original “grill of the s, and call it sporty
.Obviously in minority here, which I am fine with.
dc_h
Active Member
The actual article is very brief and much more neutral than the title. Clickbait headlines are the curse of our time.
bambam4171
Member
Well I guess "Tesla Exec takes some vacation" wasn't catchy enough
Reciprocity
Active Member
It's highly likely that the model S with PM motors and 2170 cells will charge in real mph, at 250KW, faster then the mission E at 400KW. Even though the mission E will be much smaller and should be more efficient..
400+KW charging will require a lot of cooling and the battery will degrade very quickly or will be a very heavy, lower energy density format like NMC. Which will limit range and efficiency as we all know NCA is better for autos due to energy density, which is higher energy for less size/weight.
Last edited:
Reciprocity
Active Member
Who's going to buy a model S75D at $75k when they can get a P3LRD for $75k. Who cares, because Tesla margins will be double on the model 3 P variant vs the model S75D. At some point the S75D goes away. Probably when the S120D comes out with refresh interior. S will move up market, model 3 will fill in the 5 series and e-class level vehicles. And I predict a P120T with 2 second 0-60 to fill the gap between the S and roadster, basically being a P200T.
Waiting4M3
Active Member
That would suggest that M3 ramp is going well, who would want that?Well I guess "Tesla Exec takes some vacation" wasn't catchy enough
McMuggets
Member
I remember when Jerome "left" the company, only to show up a year later and reveal himself secretly working on the Tesla Semi project. Headlines were all over the place about "exec leaving" too.
Reciprocity
Active Member
The impact on margins from this will be huge. The market for a Model S P100D is very small, but at an estimated $75k, the market for the Model 3PLRD will be approximately 10-100x larger. Its imply a matter of how many people can afford a $135-160k car vs a $75k car. In general, I see the model 3 competing with 3/4 and 5 series with the highest optioned up Model 3s able to compete with the 5 series as well as the P variant competing with the M5, which is a car that starts at $102k car, typically $115k.
M5 has passenger room of 98.8 cubic ft. Model 3 has 97 cubic ft. About a basket ball difference in interior space.
M5 has more trunk space but no Frunk. Advantage M5 for sure, but not by much due to the Frunk.
M5 has only 300 mile city range, but 420 highway.. blended is only a slightly better then the probably 320+ range from Model 3P
M5 is 4300lbs while the Model 3P will be under 4000lbs (3838lbs for the 3LR)
M5 is 2.8 0-60. I expect Model 3P to be very close to this with maybe a ludicrous update to 2.7 to beat the M5 but probably also bringing the price closer to $85k.
M5 is much bigger then the M3, which is almost identical in curb weight to the Model 3, so the Model 3 matches up even better with the M3.
M5:
2018 BMW M5 Specs: Sedan Specifications
Model 3:
2017 Tesla Model 3 | Features and Specs | Car and Driver
Could probably the the same comparison to the S4 and AMG version of the E class. But why bother.
The impact on margins will also be very good. Consider this: Tesla will be swapping Model S 75D sales at $75k for very high margin Model 3PLRD Sales at $75k. The difference in margins could be huge. They save 20% in just raw materials due to size. Another $4,000+ in battery cost savings from a battery based on 2170 cells that are locally sourced and not shipped from japan. Another roughly $12k savings from the raw materials and manual labor. So swapping S75D sales for the Model 3P would net $16,000 more per car gross margins. No one will want an S75D, but that is ok because Tesla is going to be going from <15% GM from a sale to >40% from the Model 3PLRD. The impact on margins could be more then measurable. If Tesla sells about 10% base model S75D, with no meaningful options, which would bring down Model S GMs by 2-3% given 10% of 30%. Replacing this with even just 30% GM Model 3Ps would increase the total margins by 3%. In effect you are taking away a negative 3% and replacing it with a positive 3% so the swing is conservatively 5%. How is Tesla going to get from 17% blended automotive GM to 25%+, this is one step. The other is clearly maximizing the Capex investment to better amortize the total Capex and Opex across more vehicles produced, but that is boring stuff. Performance Model 3s are fun!.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
What does that have to do with the need to maximize the return on the most expensive component in an affordable EV? Unrelated vehicles and market segments.
Not if they can't afford them.
Psychological as well as practical. Best to have at least a bit more than 200 rated since real world use can significantly reduce that. 200+ should allow travel between SC's in all conditions.
Exactly, and since range matters you need to get the most out of the least. Hence, sedan. The fact that SUV's/CUV's sell more is irrelevant until Tesla starts having trouble selling all the Model 3's they can make.
This caught my eye: “When the single national standard was adopted six years ago, cars, which get better mileage than trucks and SUVs, made up just under half of U.S. new vehicle sales. By the end of last year, however, trucks and SUVs were close to two-thirds of all sales.”
That’s a huge shift in buying habits.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Article
