GM Chevy Volt

[Saghost]

He was alluding to another source, InsideEV's. I don't see questioning the assertion of a purported news source as "crazy talk"



Vehicle content is more than the drivetrain. They could have improved the drivetrain, yest made a number of previously standard items now optional, or simply eliminated them. Note what that InsideEV's article had to say:



Note that it refers to "trim" ... which would include non-drivetrain items.

You may want to be careful chiding others for lacking information that you fail to provide.

The article you're citing could possibly have been worded better, but it is mostly about the difference between the two trim levels of Generation 2.

Of the things on that list "Features of note/significant changes from gen 1:" the only thing that was standard on 2015 Volts that isn't now appears to be the CD player - though I'm not positive what the standard number of speakers is on a 2015.

There are a number of things that were options for the single trim level of 2015 Volt that will now only be standard/optional if you choose the LTZ trim, but considering that they were options to begin with, I don't see that as justification to describe the situation as a mass de-contenting...
Walter

 

[jdevo2004]

The 2016 Volt has done a lot of things right. Better styling, regular gas instead of premium, better mileage, more electric range, cheaper price, and second generation technology from a layman's perspective. These are going to sell well.

 

[stopcrazypp]

...
Of the things on that list "Features of note/significant changes from gen 1:" the only thing that was standard on 2015 Volts that isn't now appears to be the CD player - though I'm not positive what the standard number of speakers is on a 2015.
...
Walter

Thanks Walter, that answers my question. The Inside EVs article didn't make it clear what actually got de-contented from a base 2015 Volt vs a 2016 Volt (even though they implied a lot got removed). If only minor things like the CD player or number of speakers changed (which wouldn't be $1200 worth of options), then the $1200 savings would mostly be from less expensive batteries and other cost optimizations unrelated to trim levels.

 

[Saghost]

Thanks Walter, that answers my question. The Inside EVs article didn't make it clear what actually got de-contented from a base 2015 Volt vs a 2016 Volt (even though they implied a lot got removed). If only minor things like the CD player or number of speakers changed (which wouldn't be $1200 worth of options), then the $1200 savings would mostly be from less expensive batteries and other cost optimizations unrelated to trim levels.

That is our belief, though there's a lot we still don't know and there could be subtle content changes the article didn't mention (On the whole, the car seems to be gaining more content actually - at least, there are a number of options that were never available before like the rear seat heaters, automatic braking, and inteligent headlights.)

GM talked about the benefits of reducing cell count by 1/3 (from 288 to 192) and integrating the power electronics into the transmission housing, along with the lower rare earth content of the smaller drive motors (which still deliver more power/torque through engineering magic that allows both motor to work together in low speed EV mode,) and economies of scale as ways they are saving money.
Walter

 

[eloder]

The 2016 Volt has done a lot of things right. Better styling, regular gas instead of premium, better mileage, more electric range, cheaper price, and second generation technology from a layman's perspective. These are going to sell well.

Theoretically yes, but somehow I don't think it will. The original Volt's range was still sufficient for 80%+ of people's commuting trips on all electric range, but extremely few of that crowd adopted it despite the fact that it has none of the traditional limitations of a BEV and it's gas mpg still was pretty good.

The dealer network is what will kill the Volt. It's amazing that the Leaf outsells the Volt, in my eyes, but at least Nissan puts half-decent effort into trying to get it to consumer hands.

 

[Saghost]

I am aware of the taxpayer cost per vehicle.

What exactly does this mean?

 

[scottf200]

I'm sorry I gave that impression, but I didn't mean to. ...

My apologies. I appreciate many of your thoughtful informed post.

 

[RobStark]

But unlike a Tesla, you can just jump in it and drive 500 miles in any direction today.

And for most owners, you never use gas. No flames, please.

Two mutually exclusive propositions.

You can either drive 500 miles in either direction OR use no gas.


You drive a 50 mile range BEV in either direction. Then choose if you want to drive a hybrid that gets 41 MPG.

It combines a mediocre hybrid with a very poor BEV.

A 2015 Prius gets 50 MPG combined. The next generations is rumored to get 55 MPG combined.

There is a certain buyer that wants to drive zero emissions yet will not consider a BEV until they have 400 miles plus range plus ubiquitous fast chargers. So there is a market for this.

No flames just a restatement of the facts.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I think the sales of the Volt is actually held back by the non-plug-in aspects. Namely the limited rear seat room and trunk space. The Leaf, while sacrificing quite a bit of aerodynamics, has a relatively roomy rear seat and much more cargo space. Range limitations aside, as a car it's more practical in this respect.

The new "fifth" seat will help a bit, but I don't think the 2016 Volt improved things enough in this area and I think they missed a chance to do so. It might cost more in development costs, but I seriously think they should consider scrapping the tunnel battery and rethinking the packaging completely.

The other spec we don't know yet is the final EPA numbers.

 

[JRP3]

And for most owners, you never use gas. No flames, please.

If that were true they should have just bought an EV, with superior EV range, and no gas engine to carry around unused. I suspect that most Volt owners do use some gas, which makes more sense than buying a vehicle and only using half of the features you paid for.

 

[Skotty]

I think the sales of the Volt is actually held back by the non-plug-in aspects. Namely the limited rear seat room and trunk space. The Leaf, while sacrificing quite a bit of aerodynamics, has a relatively roomy rear seat and much more cargo space. Range limitations aside, as a car it's more practical in this respect.

The new "fifth" seat will help a bit, but I don't think the 2016 Volt improved things enough in this area and I think they missed a chance to do so. It might cost more in development costs, but I seriously think they should consider scrapping the tunnel battery and rethinking the packaging completely.

The other spec we don't know yet is the final EPA numbers.

The cargo space in the Volt is fine. If you want to see poor cargo space, check out one of the Ford PHEVs.

 

[jdbob]

The cargo space in the Volt is fine. If you want to see poor cargo space, check out one of the Ford PHEVs.

The Fusion Energi has lousy luggage space, the C-Max has a little more than the Volt, From fueleconomy.gov (2015 models)

Passenger Space (cubic feet) C-Max: 100, Fusion: 103, Volt: 90
Luggage Space (cubic feet) C-Max: 19, Fusion: 8, Volt: 18

 

[stopcrazypp]

The cargo space in the Volt is fine. If you want to see poor cargo space, check out one of the Ford PHEVs.

GM still lists the Volt cargo volume at 10.6 cu ft. That's extremely small even for a compact, esp. for a hatchback. The Fords may be worse (Ford lists the C-Max Energi at 19.2 cubic ft, Fusion Energi at 8.2 cubic ft although the Fusion is a sedan), but they sell a lot worse also, so that doesn't help the Volt. The goal is the expand the Volt's sales beyond the previous gen, not only fight against losers in the market. To do that it needs to be at least as practical as other typical compact hatches.

 

[GSP]

The Volt's cargo space is not huge, but it is big enough for almost all uses, and the shape and access is very convenient. When more room is needed, there are split folding rear seats and hatchback utility. It is even good for four people plus luggage on vacations if you pack efficiently.

The Volt may not out sell the Cruise, Corolla, or Civic, but it is a wonderful car, and it outsells about half of the models available in the U.S. if I remember correctly.

For the Volt to sell better, more people will need to understand its value, and how easy it can be to charge instead of fill up. This will take time, and FUD from the WSJ (and BEV purists) will help it take longer.

GSP

 

[JRP3]

Yeah those crazy BEV "purists", killing Volt sales with "FUD". Good thing Tesla never had to deal with huge amounts of FUD, since that would have curtailed vehicle sales dramatically.

 

[mknox]

I think the sales of the Volt is actually held back by the non-plug-in aspects. Namely the limited rear seat room and trunk space. The Leaf, while sacrificing quite a bit of aerodynamics, has a relatively roomy rear seat and much more cargo space. Range limitations aside, as a car it's more practical in this respect

Unless you have small children, I really think the 3 across seating is a red herring. The one and only time I had three people in the back of my Model S, they were crammed in and complaining of it being to tight. They were practically on top of each other, couldn't get their seat belts buckled and because of having to sit straight, even had limited headroom. And I can only imagine the Leaf or new Volt would be even worse. My wife's Pontiac Vibe has three across rear seating, but there is only about 10" between the center seat seatbelt buckles. It's a joke. I'd much rather have the bucket seats and let the realistic number of two adults sitting back there do so in comfort.

 

[Saghost]

Yeah those crazy BEV "purists", killing Volt sales with "FUD". Good thing Tesla never had to deal with huge amounts of FUD, since that would have curtailed vehicle sales dramatically.

There's FUD, and then there's FUD. The Tesla fires happened to actual customer cars, and yet they never had congressional hearings about those...

 

[ecarfan]

Unless you have small children, I really think the 3 across seating is a red herring. The one and only time I had three people in the back of my Model S, they were crammed in and complaining of it being to tight. They were practically on top of each other, couldn't get their seat belts buckled and because of having to sit straight, even had limited headroom.

I regularly have 3 adults in the rear seat of my S without a problem. Of course none of them are over 6 ft tall, and none of them are obese.

 

[Skotty]

Unless you have small children, I really think the 3 across seating is a red herring. The one and only time I had three people in the back of my Model S, they were crammed in and complaining of it being to tight. They were practically on top of each other, couldn't get their seat belts buckled and because of having to sit straight, even had limited headroom. And I can only imagine the Leaf or new Volt would be even worse. My wife's Pontiac Vibe has three across rear seating, but there is only about 10" between the center seat seatbelt buckles. It's a joke. I'd much rather have the bucket seats and let the realistic number of two adults sitting back there do so in comfort.

I agree completely. If you really need 3 across, what you need isn't 3 across seating in the Volt; what you need is a bigger class vehicle.

- - - Updated - - -

A quick visual comparison between the trunk of some Ford electrified vehicles and the Volt.

C-Max Energi (seats folded)

C-Max Energy (seats up)

Focus EV

Fusion Energi

Volt (seats folded)

Volt (seats up)

The Ford C-MAX fairs better thanks to it's wagon design, but I think Chevy has clearly done a better job with storage space.

 

[scottf200]

It combines a mediocre hybrid with a very poor BEV.
<snip>
No flames just a restatement of the facts.

This proves your over the top prejudice. As well as your defn of "facts" are. It has been outstanding for many of us who have come from many classes of cars. MANY former Prius owners on gm-volt.com who go on and on about how there is no comparison (Plug in Prius failed by many defn too). Volt owners love it as the Model S owners love their cars.